Nicinus Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 This seems to be a topic that comes up now and then, but since it is probably version specific I hope no one minds if I bring it up again. There seems to be different alternatives: DWG/DXF - this appears to works relatively well but the format doesn't support textures 3DS - doesn't work for me with my model, 3ds Max gives error message 'Improper File Format' DAE (Collada) - this would be ideal, but Max gives error message that it can't parse the xml/dae file. I've tried using Sketchup as an intermediate, and it can open the DAE file, which I then export to FBX and into Max, but it obviously a bit cumbersome to have to go that extra step and be dependent on a third program. Given that Sketchup can in fact read the Collada file one would assume the problem lies with Max, but it doesn't even seem to be able to open it. Is this supposed to work, or is there some form of partial dae/collada support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodCole Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I was having trouble importing dae files into TurboCAD as well. It has been a while now, but if I remember correctly I had to use Sketchup 8, not the latest version, and import the file. My guess is that CA developers probably didn't do much checking beyond the then current version of SketchUp for file compatibility. I have found that Blender does a good job of importing Chief's dae files, and it has quite a few options for export as well. You might give that a try and see if it works better than going through SketchUp. You also brought up a few things regarding exporting files in general that are quite annoying as well. For me the lack of support to export layers as we have them named in Chief is a major deterent to working efficiently with other applications. One of the major advantages of BIM modeling is to leverage 3D models early in the process in order to take anvantage of the feature sets available in other applications. This is IMO a major flaw in even the most basic sense of the term interoperabilty. More like recreating the wheel. Hopefully more developers will move to provide file formats that really are compatible with other applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I have no problem opening imported 3ds files in Max. try to check/uncheck 3ds export options. Mine says improper file format if I uncheck truncate texture names to 8.3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicinus Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 I think I tried both unchecked and not, but will test again to make sure. Have you had issues with models being to big? I understand 3ds only supports 65,000 triangles but perhaps that is enough for Chief. Have you had any problems with truncating texure names? I wish Collada would work, it was dramtically faster to create that format in my case, and it also respects layers which almost is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_Park Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Your 3DS problem may be because you have long file names turned on. The 3DS format still uses 8.3 file names. We allow the long file names for round trip export/import back into Chief, but it is technically an improper 3DS format. The option ought to be removed. I'm not sure on the Collada compatibility issues. It is possible that the Collada specification that other software is using is older than the one we are using. That should work itself out over time as the older software is updated. If you do have issues with Collada import or export please let our support team know so that we can improve it. Of all the formats out there it has the most promise of continuing to be viable. 3DS is essentially a dead format as it has not changed in many years. SKP is proprietary and has shown signs of dieing an early death due to lack of support by the vendor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imodel Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 3DS is essentially a dead format as it has not changed in many years. Not sure what you mean by this. Not changing can have its advantages. Works fine for me and always has. It seems to be the most universally supported format. Interesting comment about Sketchup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicinus Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 So I tried with truncated checked, but unfortunately get the same result. Max says that it is an improper file format. The file is 37MB and took over 30 min to generate. On top of it I'm not entirely sure CA did it correctly, as although the truncate option was checked the texture files in the folder have long names, which I assume they shouldn't. Since the other software in question is the latest version of 3ds Max Design, 2015, I'm not sure what to do if they aren't keeping it up on their side. It seems as if Collada is maintained by a relatively small organisation though, with no updates since 2008 according to their web site. Blender had no problem reading it so it seems Autodesk is the one to blame here. However, the Collada file did not seem to include any layers in Blender, and when I did succeed export to Max from Blender in FBX format it didn't contain any layers either, it was all one gigantic object. Hate to say it, but given Autodesk's massive dominance with the dwg/dxf format the last 20 years, would it be worth considering FBX? Looks like I'm stuck with dwg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 the Collada file did not seem to include any layers in Blender Neither in 3ds max, only one layer - geo0-positions-node. We have been requesting for an FBX file extention since the old forum, (I think it was Bryce who first asked for this) it retains texture orientation and layers. File size is light compared to all file extentions we have presently in Chief.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicinus Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Follow up question on the export. Is it possible to export an individual object/symbol for tweaking in another program such as Max? When I tried to export a selected object in 3ds, the export was for the whole scene. There was no option to only export the selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 All objects will be exported, so no, it cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Can that object be copied to a new empty plan first ??? Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 That would be the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodCole Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 One way to get at the individual geometry you are after is to explode the the geometry into it's component parts. Then use a utility such as select by and use a filter such as color. That way if you export the file with a layerset that is color coded you can select the objects and place them on the layers you want. Not saying this is the way I would want it, but it is a way to get things done currently. I think one of the issues with layers not being supported is due to the collada file type's use by many graphics programs such as Blender and others. There does not seem to be any standards among the graphics applications as far as layers are concerned. On top of that, graphics programs and CAD programs typically handel layers very differently. IMO BIM is not being afforded an opportunity to grow the way it should due to the lack of realistic standards. TurboCAD Pro Platinum Version 21 now supports the IFC file format. This format looks like it has some promise if it actually covers the things we need for interactive file exchange not just marketing hype. Architectural visualizations are poised to make some profound improvements in the not too distant future due to the advent of GPU rendering. I actually like a lot of what Chief can do with rendering and ray traces, but that is not to say that I would not like to be able to use the other applications as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodCole Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Can that object be copied to a new empty plan first ??? Lew From what I have seen you will get the file as exported. Then you will need to explode the geomety and then select the items you want. If you want to organize the objects into meaningful layers for things like returning to Chief as a symbol or for other purposes you will need to either create the layer names you need, or import the layer names from another file. All of this to get the very same layer names that you started with in Chief. Edit: Now I get your question Lew, and yes you can, but typically you are not after just one object but an organized arrangement of objects. This means you would need to save a separte file for each of the objects you need, or more practically for a group of objects that you will probably not need to separate in another application. I am looking into this as a possiblity for importing portions of scenes into Blender. In theory it should work, but I have not had a chance to try it out yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portrait Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I also experience the same "improper file format" problem with 3D Max. The problem began when i started to work on a new computer which has a built-in Windows 8. I was using X5 when this problem started, later switched to X6, and i still can't import 3ds files into 3D Max. The stranger part is that Autocad and Chief accepts this 3ds file, while 3D Max doesn't. This one still remains as a mystery for me, and surprised to see someone else also experiences the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicinus Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 It seems as if the problem is immediate, i.e. Max doesn't even start to load it, so there must be something in the file header that doesn't look the way Max expects it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portrait Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 By the way, Doug could be right about 3ds format is nearly obsolute; but it's still the only option to import a Chief model into 3D Studio with untriangulated surfaces. So until a proper fbx export option is available, "3ds" export option will remain as an important feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_Park Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 When we ported to Mac we researched the 8.3 file name limitation, thinking that surely by now that antiquated notion would no longer be a limitation for that software. We were surprised to find the even the latest versions of 3D studio still required the 8.3 format for the 3DS export format. This took us down an annoying detour to implement on the Mac code to generate 8.3 compliant file names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcaffee Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 "This took us down an annoying detour..." So why not update to the *.fbx interchange format? jon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicinus Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 When we ported to Mac we researched the 8.3 file name limitation, thinking that surely by now that antiquated notion would no longer be a limitation for that software. We were surprised to find the even the latest versions of 3D studio still required the 8.3 format for the 3DS export format. This took us down an annoying detour to implement on the Mac code to generate 8.3 compliant file names. However, I get the same 'Improper Format' error even if I truncate the file names. It just doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abqjim Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 When i export to .3ds, I lose textures on materials. Is there a step I am missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPDesign Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 "This took us down an annoying detour..." So why not update to the *.fbx interchange format? jon +2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portrait Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Has anyone encountered the same issue with X7? I send almost every Chief plan i work to 3D Max; but this "improper file format" became a serious nightmare for me since X5. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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