3D Model Based Design-Build

[Paramount]

I imagine Simlab has done a market study of the biggest home builders and corporate in the world prior to investing big funds to develop the MBD and the result is high demand and more will follow and have already. I'm sure that sales coordination was done direct, not out here with people learning CA. I can't imagine why a big corporate executive is out here learning CA

 

The answer to Simlabs question is  the MBD in it's 100% form is paperless, the 3D PDF is not required. That is why they are questioning it. However, it will be the short term vehicle to make the transitions. Some will need it to support external an internal design_build customers especially when access is limited one can generate a 3D PDF. Company I do this for now limits access to 3RD party design support firms in other countries. When design-builds go to the global market place large corporate implements export control compliance (ITARS (goggle this). I just did one last week. The MBD specification tree I have been referring to has properties one of which is export control classifications that are ran through macros I'll discuss soon. That is important to national and international Builders and Corporate to protect their designs_builds.

 

Another acronym is MDI (Model Based Installation) where 3D dimensions and annotation define for example cabinet installations or other non numerically controlled installs. GD&T(Geodesic Dimensions and Tolerance) can be used at any tolerance value(eg:.25-.5) to cut down on the number of dimensions needed that have cluttered 2D drawings. Space saving 3D control frames are used. BTW many aircraft installs are built to +/- .25. IE: Long thin composite wing spars with lots of spring back, I did one just a year ago

 

PS: Aircraft buffs check out the ~400' wing span on the Stratolauncher "THE ROC" I specified 2" MDI tolerances on some of it's structure all of which was located by hand and tape measure like cabinets. W-truss (same structure on most of a/c) ceiling rafters in the hanger clear spanned 420'. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaled_Composites_Stratolaunch

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=stratolauncher+factory+pics&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS700US701&espv=2&biw=1900&bih=916&tbm=isch&imgil=T_Ia2_U6SWvoeM%253A%253BZcGkL8dHxa3CBM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Farstechnica.com%25252Fscience%25252F2015%25252F11%25252Fpaul-allens-plan-to-launch-rockets-from-airplanes-may-be-crashing%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=T_Ia2_U6SWvoeM%253A%252CZcGkL8dHxa3CBM%252C_&usg=__6Nb0o3AGgcoEaG7dxysYgLCJ5fU%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjf5pjTosHOAhVFxWMKHWhHChAQyjcINw&ei=ypSwV9_ZO8WKjwPojqmAAQ#imgrc=T_Ia2_U6SWvoeM%3A

[Paramount]

If you want to learn how to dimension in 3D refer to ANSI Y14.5. I referred above to "control frames" that reduce the need for linear dimensions. If you have questions ask, it can get complicated. I will be educating my trades on the use. As I said, MBD/MDI is a design build process not a design tool. I'll be in more communications with Simlab, I am sure is well aware of all this  CA would be wise to tune into my next post at Simlab.  It would be ideal to have the integrations some of which are already in place to the knowledgeable Engineer I think Simlab did a great job marketing to.  

[scottharris]

Chief Architect does have an external 3D Viewer for iOS and Android.

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/products/3d-viewer/

[Paramount]

Scott, definitely a wise choice sharing the 3D model to phones, tablets, etc, for field operations. If you can check out the FTA "Functional Tolerance & Annotation" MBD workbench/plug-in in some of Dassaults product one has to purchase another license for. Many large companies have limited licenses and "shareable products". We only use the license when we need it for 3D annotations/dimensions then release it for others to use. It will be interesting to see how simlab ties it together for architectural and interior design. 

[facer_03]

Paramount (Terry),

The following is my attempt to assist you gain a better understanding of

the design and construction industry.  It is meant to be a positive contribution.

 

 

Apples and Oranges

You are "re-inventing" the wheel when you refer building designers to "ANSI Y14.5" as a way to dimension 3D models.

Dimensioning of 3D Models is adequately referenced within the design/construct industry.   (refer to Reference Links at the end)

 

MBD/MDI is another word (or ancroynm) for BIM without direct links to the construction industry.

Why is it necessary to re-invent what the design/construction world has been evolving for the past 25 years?

 

BuildingSMART, formerly the International Alliance for Interoperability (IAI), is an international organisation

which aims to improve the exchange of information between software applications used in the construction industry.

It has developed Industry Foundation Classes (IFCs) as a neutral and open specification for Building Information Models (BIM).

 

refer to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BuildingSMART

 

I would think you would get a better response and returns on your efforts for change in Chief by speaking in the language of the building and construction industry. 

Hence why not use BIM which is fully established and linked to Design and Construction where MBD (MDI) applies to the auto/aero industries.

Whatever lessons can be learned from the auto/aero industry should be referenced and integrated into the established design/construct nomenclature.

(i.e. the body or system of names used in the design/construct industry)

 

Chief Architect and BIM?.

IFC (Industry Foundation Classes) is the key to integration between software.  I suggest this should be the

focus for change by Chief users to allow it to evolve into the growing BIM environment.  Will Chief take up the challenge?

Many Chiefers believe not, but I think it is a question of Chief's future success and survival. Why?

The computer and technolgies now accelerating the uses of BIM are in an "EXPONENTIAL PHASE OF CHANGE". That is now the almost vertical line

in the exponential graph! Within a few years we all will be using VR Goggles and looking at

our Holigraphic slides and wonder how we ever did without them.

 

If your CAD software does not allow IFC import/exports that can be read by other CAD programs then it will soon be "past its use by date".

I do not believe that any new design or construction entrant will be using software that does not integrate with other software.

 

 

Simlab

Simlab is an interesting evolution of the use of 3D models but it appears to have a long way to go before it

is fully integrated into the workhorse CAD programs as ArchiCad, Revit, AutoCAD etc.

 

The integration with 3D pdf seems to be its strength but this is diminishing weekly as the new

WebGL 3D Viewers as Sketchfab and qrVR improve with free entry levels.

 

Simlab Composer Pro. ( http://www.simlab-soft.com/3d-products/simlab-composer-arch.aspx )

For me it is an all in one integration of SketchUp and Thea Render but at additional time and cost ($) to learn and use.

 

A good example of the process using SimLab is:

Exporting 3D PDF from Sketchup

SimLab Soft

 

I like the integration of the 3D pdf files with Adobe Reader and the ability to interegate the model but I am not sure

how the building trades would respond to the process if dimensions etc are not clearly identified by 

the designer. How will the documents be presented in any legal dispute?

 

Chief Architects 3D Viewer assists the client or prospect understand the Model being designed.

It is at present more of a visual aid to fully understand the Model. This can assist

trades and subcontractors but does not add to the Documentation of the Construction Set

where as 3D pdf's offer an alternative or complementary format.

 

Reference Links for

dimensioning and tolerances in the building industry

 

dimensioning and tolerances in the building industry - USA

https://global.ihs.com/drawing_drafting.cfm

Drawing and Drafting / Dimensioning and Tolerancing

 

dimensional and tolerances in the building industry - USA

https://www.access-board.gov/research/completed-research/dimensional-tolerances/part-ii

 

 

Guide-to-Standards-and-Tolerances-2015 - Australia

http://www.vba.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/29063/Guide-to-Standards-and-Tolerances-2015.pdf

 

[Paramount]

FACER_03. My first suggestion is do not think because I have been referring to aircraft/auto I have no design build experience in the “construction” industry. I’ve been in real estate since 1989, worked construction since back in 1975. Our private companies currently build custom homes we are breaking ground on one now, another within two months will be a HERs net zero I designed and our marketing center. We also do large commercial renovations, storm restorations we make the most profits on. The last large new construction commercial job I did the Production Management on had an appraised value of $12 million. I did a blog on it. I don’t think this thread is about challenging credentials or boasting about them, they really do not matter. I have been out here a while and have seen zero MBD/MDI/BIMS. If I missed one please show me?

I have none to show yet in building construction, I am working on that now. I have posted several screen shots I am currently working on for the aero industry I enjoy too since that is all I have. Please post the current or past BIMS project you are working on so yes I see exactly what you are talking about and can learn from you?

BIMS is not MBD/MDI are stand alone products and are components of BIMS along with conceptual design, detail design, analysis, programming, renovation, operation and maintenance, construction logistics, fabrication, visualization, demolition and disposal……Yes you are correct about one thing, comparing BIMS to the MBD/MDI is like comparing apples to oranges. BIMS is comparable to other life cycle management products I also mentioned ENOVIA, TEAM CENTER, SMARTEAM, PDM, or combinations of. I said I was developing a similar depository for those life cycle items(models) but did not agree with you that BIMS is MBD.

All the links you post do not show the ANSI Y14.5 chapters I reference that are the standards for 3D annotations & tolerance used in MBD/MBIs. Be more specific with an example of a design_build?

I don’t agree with you that Simlab is misusing the word in their post either, “MBD” not “BIMS” there just seems to a misunderstanding between the two out here.

Let’s get on the same page before we proceed any further. Please post your current BIMS model you think satisfies the MBD/MBI? Please explain how in detail?

[Paramount]

Simlabs demo MBD video is now up along with my questions and comments: 

http://www.simlabforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10018&p=15880#p15880

 

[MarkMc]

Done a few 3dpdf's from chief. Tested a few kitchens, used for a couple of complicated cabinets. I export model, open in Turbocad Deluxe, create 3D pdf with $50 plug-in, annotate and create views in Bluebeam PDF review. Already had TCad and BB. All that part is easy. Textures, colors have been tricky to plan.

Tried to export a portion of a model with both wall surfaces and framing on separate layers without success.

[RodCole]

Mark

 

If I am following what you are trying to do regarding exporting both framing and wall surfaces into 3D PDF files.  What I do is export each set of geometry to separate files and then do an Extract From to import the geometry into a composite file in TC Pro Platinum.

 

Select each group as it is brought in and change the layers as req'd.  I don't actually mix wall surfaces and framing in my models, but the principle should work though.

[MarkMc]

Rod thanks will give that a go next time.

[Paramount]

Ultimately, the MBD eliminates the need for 3D PDFs all paper links and trails. I've done a/c galley cabinet & interior installs this way for years it's not rocket science nor is getting trades with tape measures to understand them. Simlab has made an excellent first attempt at making that very easy without multiple products. It appears they are knowledgeable about several industries and are the right ones for the job. Be nice if we had the same capability in CA. 

 

BTW: Can you guys define your acronyms better I'm totally confused

[lbuttery]

IFC (Industry Foundation Classes) is the key to integration between software.  I suggest this should be the focus for change by Chief users to allow it to evolve into the growing BIM environment.  Will Chief take up the challenge?

 

I doubt it - I've been asking for a decade and have received negative feedback from CA and many users

 

Lew

[DRAWZILLA]

Nice but too much trouble--not for me. Thanks anyway