HumbleChief

Got it figured out (as far as i'm willing to take it) but took more than an hour for me, on the simplest of plans. I usually don't continue past a certain point because time is running out and I need that section/elevation so I just finish by hand. I feel a bit embarrassed by my lack of skills but there you have it - and i just don'r get it. BUT, I'm not going anywhere and I love Chief in so many ways it's just that Chief's way of thinking does not fit my brain so good and I'll leave it at that.

I'll continue the saga, perhaps for my own benefit, but it may help answer the original question of why there's so many questions. http://screencast.com/t/jNJzZbx0M5zi

Here's an example of my experience with the structure dbx. I know it's user error. I know I set something up incorrectly and will start over and will eventually get it right. Frustrating little picture with arcane letters and stuff and I should understand but I don't. I don't want to post the plan. I don't want it fixed. I want to understand the crazy thing. http://screencast.com/t/3vr5JViYnxu

Agreed Joe. I just think it's awkward and very unintuitive. Still stumps me after 15 years and that's not really an easy thing to admit, but it's true.

I would suggest that it is "quick and easy to use" because you have learned the skills required. Chief is quick and easy to use for me because I learned to use the skills required. I'm not saying Chief shouldn't change/improve I'm just saying that the skills a user has learned in one program doesn't automatically make it "quick and easy to use". As a matter of fact, for this user, having control like you described in VCAD would be very off putting and way way over-complicated, only for this user. But that's why there's an ass for every seat.

Another CRAZY making paradigm. Terrains. I change the building pad height from 4" to 12" and the Terrain gets LOWER. Of course it should and I understand there's some engineering logic to this but I want to click the terrain and make it higher or lower the same way everything else works in Chief. When I enter 12" in the dbx I want it 12" high and when I type in 4" I want it 8" lower - like every single other parameter in Chief. My floor is at 0". I want my terrain -8" lower - to do so I enter +8" - really? So I have to change my way of thinking for this one item in Chief and begin thinking a larger number lowers the terrain and smaller number raises it. NOTHING like the structure tab where a higher number raises the room and a lower number lowers the floor (and every other item in Chief). There could be no better example than that simple terrain dbx to illustrate the 'programming' that goes into Chief versus the user and their experience with Chief. I work all day raising and lowering items in Chief using + to raise and - to lower but when I get to the Terrain dbx I have to think differently. Why?

Joe, good job stating some of the problems with the structure dbx more clearly. It seems like you 'get it' and I so much respect that and your skills but my brain really hates to work within dbx's that go against my nature or logic defying paradigms like working from the top down. I adapt but I'm not alone in my confusion and Chief needs to take a real hard look at some of its long held beliefs and working structure. It must be true that someone thought that working from the top down was a good idea because it fit the software programming methodology, but what about the user's methodology? Where was the engineer who said, "But wait, in real life we don't build from the top down why would we insist the program build from the top down?" If that question wasn't asked then why not? And if that question was asked, what was the answer? The answer to that question IMO is at the heart of some of Chief's biggest disconnects between its programmers and its users. All I can figure is that the programmers simply do not use the software for home design. What other possible explanation could there be? Let's build from the top down should NEVER have been an option in the minds of the programmers IMO. But here we sit. I've adapted as best as I can but still struggle with similar approaches to home design.

Funny you should post that Ed and I was heading over here to remind Chief users that you build a house and set room heights from the top down - really. I've had that sage advice from many who might also 'get it' but I'm very much like you - I simply don't get it. I build a house from the ground up but the software engineers have decided we can/should adapt to something that is fundamentally backwards instead of hiding that arcane coding and presenting a formula that fits real world building practices. "OK Chief it's time to take notice. We don't get it. I don't get it. I live with it. I just don't get it. There are many that just don't get it." Very very true. So what's missing? I think we're missing some true interactions between the devs and the users. There's some light over at the X7 forum about stairs and someone actually asking about what the users might want but this is 2015 and that's the first time I've seen a request like that - other than a request from a programmer asking about how slabs are built - obviously having absolutely NO building experience but I digress. So I also live with it. Wonder every day where the approach came from, but I live with it.

Haven't posted to this thread but have read it and find myself agreeing with the above post as well. I've said many times that my brain doesn't work the way Chief is designed and I know there's nothing I can do about it. I don't think of myself as a stupid person or slow minded but when I use Chief I feel really really dumb. I find myself in the same predicament as the poster above when I need to solve something. I search and search and the forum helps a lot but it seems I shouldn't have to 'ask so many questions' of a software. That blasted 'structure' tab with that stupid little picture and 9 fields to fill with numbers representing something to a software engineer but absolutely nothing to me and the way I think. I've been using Chief for 15 years and still don't understand that structure hell box. Really, when is there a floor under this freaking room? A slab? No wait it's supplied by the room below? Cryptic and arcane and yet it remains unchanged for years and years and years. If someone feels like I should just learn the program or post a specific problem then you are missing the point. Why should any user not be able to understand the most basic room building tool in Chief? After 15 years? There's something wrong with that picture. I'll take my share of any problem I face but I've been using software for over 30 years and have NEVER been stumped about basic techniques like I have been with Chief. It's simply built around a software paradigm that does not fit with my way of thinking so I've adjusted my way of thinking to fit Chief. It's been hard but I get most of the techniques at this stage and understand that software engineers think like software engineers and not like builders or Architects or Designers or Construction Document preparers. None of this means I'm looking for other software but I have really quit with the 'suggestions' merry go round and have resigned myself to understanding Chief will evolve the way its designers decide and I will adapt to those design decisions. Until Chief truly understands how people really use its software we will be wed to all the questions that this forum generates.

Same same

+1

Way to go Bob. Which technique did you use?

You could start here - https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=timber+frame+chief+architect

I'm suggesting it did matter on my system, and it's just a suggestion, do what you will with it.

I was timing your video, not my system, and it seemed you may have counted a little more quickly in the X7 version of the camera shot - but the rest of the slow downs? Not cool for the users or the programmers. But either way I'm with you, there's trouble in River city, and those little delays really add up and X7 just feels 'sluggish' overall compared to X6. Did you try emptying the temp cache folder? (type %temp% in the windows search bar and delete everything that's not being used 'skip' the stuff that is) Made a difference in my system - until CA then created huge temp files and the slow downs returned. Tech is on it I'm sure and I hope X7 returned with X6's speed.

I got between 4.9 and 5.1 seconds with X6 in your first camera view example and about 5.1 - 5.3 seconds in X7. Couldn't find an appreciable difference when I was using a stop watch - just sayin'. The save delay and camera view delete delay are a niggling pain that I feel with every plan. Ugh. ..and I agree that the difference is noticeable and just drags on the creative juices when using X7.

What is a 'Kudo'? and why would I want one or give one out?

I didn't try Doug's suggestion - here's what I got. http://screencast.com/t/1hZ1v1laaDBa Got the same results as Doug. Fast again with All On then back to floor plan set.

I'm not sure what problem the solution is chasing? Can someone explain the problem?

Thanks Glenn,

OK Glenn, I can call off the crazy/stupid for the time being. Is there another way to create the plant-on molding I was trying to accomplish? And BTW for anyone else trying this type of plant-on you (or at least I) need to create a molding that 'leans' the other way to get the molding to flow around the outside, regardless of the inside/exterior selection. This shape gives this result.

I don't get that option, what am I doing wrong? http://screencast.com/t/cfMJzEODW

Zoomed way in and grabbed a section of line and it worked - Thanks - Great video - very helpful.

Why do 3D P-Lines only show that single useless line?

Thanks so much. Shift select doesn't seem to do anything that I can tell but yes it's in the attic - where I drew it doh!!