Best practice for modelling a thick wall, with false double wall, and a wedge-shaped recessed window

[smashing]

I’m working on an old property with thick stone walls, and a variety of false walls inside of them. Wall thicknesses vary throughout the property, most are at odd angles, and some vary in thickness along their length.

 

Suffice to say it’s caused a lot of headaches modelling in Chief Architect.

 

I’ve given up on the idea of modelling walls that vary in thickness along their length, and have solved a number of key issues, but there’s a couple of things I’m struggling with.

 

I’ll keep it simple and put a simple question… How would you model the situation in the photo below?

 

 

It’s a recessed window in a wedge-shaped opening. The drywall (plasterboard) sits in front of the exterior wall, which extends 28 cm further beyond the window shown.

 

So far I’ve explored using marriage walls, with the option under ‘Double Wall Options - Enlarged’ to place the window. This is simple, and results in a fair approximation as shown below, but the recess is rectangular (not wedge shaped).

 

I’ve explored using a 3D solid for the false wall, and poking a hole in it using the 3D Solid Feature. This seems to offer more control and is quite promising, but my 3D skills in CA may be limiting here, and I can’t get the hole to be wedge shaped. It ends up the same ‘squared’ recess as the other approach. Perhaps I’m missing something.

 

 

 

I’ve considered modelling the false wall in Blender, but there are a lot of rooms, and I’d prefer to have an all-in-CA solution for speed and flexibility.

 

What approach would you use?

 

 

P.S. For the sake of simplicity, perhaps ignore the complicating ‘beam’ across the top of the window (although ideally I’d like to model that too)

[GeneDavis]

Wedge-shaped?  Looks like you are describing the side walls pitched on two different axes?  Wider at top than at bottom?  And when we get to the outer wall, there is more wall reveal at top than at bottom?  Gotta be unless the walls are warped, in which case we have an even more complex modeling task.

[Kbird1]

2 hours ago, smashing said:

It’s a recessed window in a wedge-shaped opening

 

I think I saw Eric ( @solver  ) post about using a Molding to do this a few year (?) ago so he may have a Video on it.....

 

There have been a few threads on the Forum over the years on these thick walls , usually in europe so you maybe able to find them too.

 

It appears you need to lower your Roof Plane too, so the Roof plane forms the top of the opening unless that is just an optical illusion in the Photo?

 

M.

[smashing]

20 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

Wedge-shaped?  Looks like you are describing the side walls pitched on two different axes?  Wider at top than at bottom?  And when we get to the outer wall, there is more wall reveal at top than at bottom?  Gotta be unless the walls are warped, in which case we have an even more complex modeling task.

 

Sorry yes this wasn't perhaps the best shape description... it's more 'keystone'. The opening is wider than at the window basically. The bottom of the opening is flat as you'd expect, the top follows the roof angle.

 

 

[smashing]

19 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

It appears you need to lower your Roof Plane too, so the Roof plane forms the top of the opening unless that is just an optical illusion in the Photo?

 

M.

 

You're absolutely correct, the roof plane forms the top of the opening which is not modelled in the CA screenshots. Those were me working on a quick test model to play around with different approaches.

 

19 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I think I saw Eric ( @solver  ) post about using a Molding to do this a few year (?) ago so he may have a Video on it.....

 

 

I've seen some wonderful videos from @solver - it's possible I've not found the right one yet. Thanks!

[rcmcdougle]

I just had the same challenge adding a gym into a basement. Not the thick wall issue but I needed to add another wall in front of the concrete foundation wall to accommodate some insulation and piping. This new wall is ultimately getting mirrors and I did not want the small light well windows to set into a tunnel. so, from the jamb of the windows I come out at a 45 degree angle on the sides and bottom. To do this I added a pass-through to the inner wall with no frame and then added poly line solids to the sides (grid fill) and rotated then stretched one of those (angled grid fill) for the bottom slope. This worked well as you can see from the attached. I am loving Chief X14.

[smashing]

Excellent - will try this approach. Thank you.

[Michael_Gia]

On 10/14/2022 at 6:38 AM, smashing said:

Excellent - will try this approach. Thank you.

The wall with pass-through is good, but I would use a molding-polyline for your chamfers. 

[rcmcdougle]

15 hours ago, Michael_Gia said:

The wall with pass-through is good, but I would use a molding-polyline for your chamfers. 

I have had mixed results with molding polylines in the past. I look forward to seeing how well they play in X-14.

 

Do you have good results getting around corners from an X axis elevation to a Y axis elevation with something like a custom stair handrail?

[glennw]

21 minutes ago, rcmcdougle said:

Do you have good results getting around corners from an X axis elevation to a Y axis elevation with something like a custom stair handrail?

My best guess is that you can't do that in real life without a little flat section as you go around the corner - 

same with Chief.

Post a picture or plan that demonstrates the problem you are having. 

[rcmcdougle]

14 minutes ago, glennw said:

My best guess is that you can't do that in real life without a little flat section as you go around the corner - 

same with Chief.

Post a picture or plan that demonstrates the problem you are having. 

Here is an image of the challenge. Stairs to a landing, turn, then more risers to the upper level. It's a current project with the railings out to bid. I had to create the railing in Rhino 3D and bring in as .dwg. The good  news is that there are options 

[rcmcdougle]

The real question is ... How do you construct that polyline ?

[glennw]

Ahaa. A bit more complicated than what I was imagining.

A bit tricky, but that should be doable with a 3D Molding Polyline.

To construct the poyline would require you to work in different view directions.

Can you post the plan or at least that section of the plan.

[Michael_Gia]

7 hours ago, rcmcdougle said:

I have had mixed results with molding polylines in the past. I look forward to seeing how well they play in X-14.

 

Do you have good results getting around corners from an X axis elevation to a Y axis elevation with something like a custom stair handrail?

No, you need to draw a separate polyline for each plane. 
 

A polyline is definitely more efficient than trying to assemble oddly shaped 3d solids. 
 

I just wish Chief did a better job with how plines are represented graphically in 2d plan view. 

[glennw]

10 hours ago, Michael_Gia said:

No, you need to draw a separate polyline for each plane.

Michael,

I believe this is incorrect.

This is a single continuous 3D Molding Polyline.

 

 

 

[Michael_Gia]

2 hours ago, glennw said:

I believe this is incorrect.

The difficulty I always have with this, is when you turn the corner, and at the same time move up, as in OP’s image. 
I’m not sure if I’m making myself clear. 
In your image, you turned the corner but remained in the same plane. 

 

[rcmcdougle]

10 hours ago, Michael_Gia said:

The difficulty I always have with this, is when you turn the corner, and at the same time move up, as in OP’s image.

I'm creating a new thread for this... 3D Molding Polyline challenges

 

You have exactly focused on the issue. How to connect / extend an X plane line into a Y plane view.

 

Secondary is the issue of the radiused return being in plane with the slope of the rail and not the plan view.

[smashing]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:38 PM, smashing said:

Excellent - will try this approach. Thank you.

 

I wanted to follow up and share what I ended up doing...

 

1. I used a 3D solid to create a false wall in front of the exterior wall.

 

2. I punched a hole in the 3D solid where the window was, using the 'right click -> 3D Solid Feature' method. 

 

3. Working in 3D Perspective view I selected the lower face of the opening and selected 'Chamfer Lines', as shown below:

 

 

4. This let me add a chamfer to the right side

 

 

5. And then the left

 

 

6. I then selected the right chamfered edge and extended it to the right as shown below

 

 

 

7. This had a desirable (unexpected) consequence of adjusting the left side automatically

 

 

8. I then selected the bottom face again...

 

 

9. And adjusted the 'corner' of the left chamfered edge and moved it up towards the window

 

 

10. And repeated for the right...

 

 

And this resulted in the desired opening.

 

I imagine there is probably a more precise way of doing this - I had some trial and error to get the measurements correct - but 3D Perspective View is what worked for me, and I liked the simplicity of ending up with a single 3D object for the false wall, complete with its keystone opening.

 

I'm grateful to rcmcdougle for inspiring me to keep tinkering, and hope this helps others!

 

[glennw]

If you are going to use solids, there is another way.

Make your solid wall and then use a shaped 3D Solid and boolean Subtraction to cut the hole in your Solid wall.

It doesn't take long to shape the 3D Solid cutout to get the shape you want.

You can then stretch, resize, move the hole to suit.

This one is as you describe with a flat bottom, sloping sides and different slope to the top.