DRAWZILLA Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 If any of you remember, back years ago here in Calif. the Architectural license board decided to Grandfather all building designers to full Architect status, without having to take any test, it was automatic, I didn't at that time b/c I wasn't a member of the building designers group which involved a yearly fee. Forgot what it was called. I thought it was a waste of money at the time. I did have a lot of friends that did get Grandfathered, what a mistake that was, Some of them had to hire plans out b/c they couldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 If any of you remember, back years ago here in Calif. the Architectural license board decided to Grandfather all building designers to full Architect status, without having to take any test, it was automatic, I didn't at that time b/c I wasn't a member of the building designers group which involved a yearly fee. Forgot what it was called. I thought it was a waste of money at the time. I did have a lot of friends that did get Grandfathered, what a mistake that was, Some of them had to hire plans out b/c they couldn't do it. It was the American Institute of Building Designers (AIBD). I have a buddy who was grandfathered in. I don't know why I did not give it a go....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicinus Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Almost odd how many feel anybody can be an architect, but no one would ever question the expertise and experience of a lawyer or a doctor and try to do that himself. It is a little bit like marketing, and how some people do their own ads. I guess it is because it looks easy or familiar that one think there must be nothing to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Almost odd how many feel anybody can be an architect, but no one would ever question the expertise and experience of a lawyer or a doctor and try to do that himself. It is a little bit like marketing, and how some people do their own ads. I guess it is because it looks easy or familiar that one think there must be nothing to it. I agree - its an odd perception. DIY projects nearly always appear exactly that. Graphic Arts as gone this way too, but at least there you are talking about a small monetary investment in an ad or printed materials. It amazes me that people can't seem to view a good designer/architect as an investment into what many people would consider the single largest asset they may own. Often good design pays for itself even in the construction costs, let alone appreciation equity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 There is a saying: Doctors can bury their mistakes. Architects have them built for everyone to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicinus Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 yet, a DIY might be able to do a decent design look at FLW and Sullivan and others who never got a degree and did designs against the "norm" of their times Are you honestly comparing FLW and Sullivan to DIY? They were both mentored by architects for many years, FLW under Sullivan and Sullivan himself studied architecture both at MIT and École des Beaux-Arts in Paris. In some states you can become a licensed architect without graduating even today, but it takes many years of experience under an architect. And then 7 pretty serious exams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I believe most DIY projects are led by taste without knowing what good design is about. The most common thing i see in a DIY project is too much taste meant to compensate for lack of design understanding. The project can take a turn to "funky-town" about this point. Composition of mixing good design (and everything related), the clients taste, and the "program" (architectural brief) are the elements to make a successful project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Never done a DIY project, not sure what you mean. Do it yourself doesn't have anything to do with design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Never done a DIY project, not sure what you mean. Do it yourself doesn't have anything to do with design. I mean the classic definition of a layman who undertakes a project themselves. In this instance we are talking about DIY home/remodel design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Are you honestly comparing FLW and Sullivan to DIY? somewhat .... as far as the "ESTABLISHMENT" was concerned they were school drop-outs who were creating "unconventional" nee ""ugly" architecture again, I have seen some really HORRIBLE" designs by trained architects again, I do recommend clients seek architects especially if they can afford them or want that level of service I use to belong to the AIA as an associate member they would hold monthly "how to work with an architect" seminars for home-owners I attended a few and the architect was emphatic that he would NOT look at any plans they brought as it would stifle his creativity he would also not do any projects under $X as it wasn't worth his time so what is a homeowner going to do - but seek out a DIY designer Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Hold the phone.... "DIY Designer"? Perhaps we are talking two different things and this is causing some confusion. I relate DIY as someone that has a different profession outside design or architecture - with no (or virtually no) background and/or schooling in design - thinking they can buy "Home Designer" and draw up their house or remodel project. I am not relating DIY as a "designer" or anyone actually within the design world. I wouldn't place anyone that has a background in design (training/schooling) or other in the "DIY" category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Thanks, that makes it sound better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Wow , that one big ego. How could you possibly know what experience or schooling anyone here has or doesn't have, or even professional license's one has. You assume a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicinus Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The way I read it is that being a builder doesn't typically mean you are a designer, and that the longer education someone has in general the more knowledgeable he is. There are exceptions to everything, but just as there are bad architects the same way there are bad doctors and lawyers, in general an architect is more trained in designing houses than anyone else. Sounds pretty obvious, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 http://www.traditional-building.com/Previous-Issues-14/AugustForum14.html An interesting read Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Richard, Saving $15000 in additional Architectural Fees cost that person $2500+ for Chief Architect and probably $50000 in additional construction costs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 another interesting read http://www.treehugger.com/green-architecture/you-can-get-sued-ugly.html Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 another interesting read: http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/the-worlds-ugliest-buildings Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kMoquin Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Stymied by the Hysteric District? I feel ill - bring on the leeches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Lew, why not try using a more intelligent architectural analysis with lots of discourse, which mostly supports it Richard: both of the articles say the same thing ??? one is just longer than the other Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Richard: hmm, construction has been stopped at 85% the Historic board reversed their decision you can split hairs but the articles say the same thing the neighbor didn't like the building and got the board to change their mind "ugly' is in the eye of the beholder that was my only point in posting that article what some consider "ugly" may not be "ugly" to others Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Richard: I don't know if the building is "ugly" or not personally, I don't like it but I don't like "modern" arch. that much anyways and if the neighborhood is "traditional" then it may not "fit" but my opinion is not why I posted the article Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Richard: I concede, your article is better... I don't know this story from shinola I stumbled across the article and posted it as an example of how "opinions" come into play - that is all it wasn't meant to be a "treatise" on everything that happened the neighbor was annoyed and apparently is still annoyed I'm glad he was able to finish the house If I had received approval and started construction I would have sued the board etc I'm sorry they gave approval in the first place but they did and it's kinda late to reverse that Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbuttery Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Richard: these quotes are from your article If you don't like the word "sue" - then choose another whatever floats your boat She hired a lawyer to appeal the commission’s positive decision to the city’s Board of Adjustment, which reviews procedural errors by city agencies Cherry and Gordon no longer had a building permit. It was suddenly illegal for them to so much as hammer another nail, and the possibility that the half-finished house would have to be torn down became real. Just the other day they got a judge to give them permission to resume construction just long enough to close up the incomplete house and protect it from the weather Lew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Johnny, Although I still get sucked into these conversations, I have been here long enough to know that this forum has a preponderance of "give the little lady what she wants" and "the customer is always right" type of designer, who will look for every opportunity to trot out their "bad architect" stories. Why, even Chief Architect touts the following as a testimonial to their product: "You should know that I have absolutely no architectural training, skill, experience or anything. I know next to nothing about construction. I figure I must have saved us at least $15,000 in additional architect fees. In conclusion: A big thanks for one of the all time greatest products that I have ever used. If an idiot like me can get plans to a builder, this is pretty fair country testimony as to how good your product is." While I have mixed feelings about using a product that is actively trying to undermine my value as a design professional as part of their marketing strategy, it is clear that advocating for good design is often a waste of time here. Knowing how to build is seen as the same as knowing how to design, and apparently knowing how to build isn't even a prerequisite to starting a drafting and design business. Yeah, its an odd mix to have CA be selling to non-professionals trying to save a buck - but in the long run its hurting those customers. If that wasn't bad enough, I agree they try to sell builders into becoming design/build firms which just propagates the notion if you can use a CAD package you are a "designer". Good "designers" and architects should equally be frustrated with that notion IMO. Does anyone suggest a design professional should take a client's idea, which they know not to be good, and implement it without some amount of protest? I've had great relationships with my clients to where if they suggest something off-the-wall, I will just tell them "no, i can't let you do that" (in a semi-humorous way) ...and we chuckle and come up with a workable solution. There is one more aspect to that, and its how much the client respects the designer/architect. If you have no respect by your client, then they probably dont think much of your opinion - and that a circular problem to have. In which case I call that being a draftsman not a designer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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