Rendering taking a really long time.

[kgschlosser]

I have searched the forum about this and the general answer to it is a better computer is going to make it faster. I am at 1 hour and 22 minutes into rendering on pass # 13. This seems like an abnormally long amount of time. I am using Chief Architect x11 and I know it is older and with that being said rendering should be faster then what it is. I have been waiting until Chief Architect adds SLI/Crossfire support but with my recent findings it seems it wouldn't speed things up anyhow (read below).

 

It's not a computer speed related issue I can assure you that. The compute is 2 months old and that is when I did a clean install of Windows 10.

 

AMD Threadripper Pro with 16 cores (32 logical processors) @ 4.0Ghz

64 GB RAM

M.2 PCIe 4.0 NVME SSD

Nvidia Quadro RTX 4000 display adapter

 

If I have RayTracing turned on for real time 3D it takes 20 seconds or more to load and the movement is horribly choppy. I have turned off viewing all framing layers and all terrain layers including plants Thisha s zero effect on how long it takes to build the 3D or the choppy movement. I also found that no matter what I set the camera movement distances and angles to the camera moves exactly the same even tho the settings do retain the values I entered.

 

Chief Architect uses at a max maybe 70% of my GPU and that is a spike for maybe 2 seconds, most of the time it's less than 20% and loading 3D when the shadows are turned on takes the same amount of time it did with an Nvidia GTX 1050Ti. There was a higher use of the GPU with the 1050Ti but it would appear that spending more than $300.00 on a video card has zero impact on the performance.

 

I have also instructed Windows 10 to use the video card when running Chief Architect.

 

Any suggestions as to what is causing these performance problems would be a HUGE help. I will not upgrade my version of Chief unless these problems have been resolved 100% and from looking at the changelog for the versions it has not been fixed.

 

 

Oh. I also want to mention the massive memory leak. After a few days of 8-10 hour a day use the program will be consuming close to 10GB of memory. If I close it and reopen the same plan the memory use is < 3GB and the program runs better.

 

[Kbird1]

If you are doing CPU Raytracing in X11 , then the VideoCard makes NO difference as it is not used for CPU Rendering , that is the Big Update in X13 ie. to Real Time PBR Views ( or RTRT as it called here ). 

 

$300 on a videocard is nothing these days ( unfortunately), many would consider that a deal.......

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/33864-best-gpu-besides-rtx3080/?tab=comments#comment-264216

 

And Yes, it is always good to close Chief once or twice a day ( say at Lunch ) and restart the computer to avoid "weirdness"

 

M.

 

* If considering an update to X13 , don't wait too long as once X14 is release it will cost you another yr on the Bill , x13 will give you a "free" X14 as well since you'll have SSA again. 

[MarckusW]

Off hand I do not believe X11 uses GPU cores. You must do CPU tracing. I opened 11 and drew a simple house and used PBR. A big nothing which was what I expected. CPU came in with 13. Download 13 and see what happens. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised once you understand setting up the image in PBR.

[kgschlosser]

OK set aside the GPU thing for the time being.

 

My Computer has 32 logical processors, it benchmarks in the top 1% in terms of speed. I let the Ray tracing run. a few minutes before 3 hours it threw an error about photons (I think that's what it said) and never completed. But seriously 3 hours?!?!?!? Rendering to a WXGA+ resolution (440x900) 72ppi. nothing crazy. I was doing an interior render and I also tried an exterior and the same error occurred 2 hours into the render. I do not have any terrain or plants in my plan.

 

[bdillard1]

4 hours ago, kgschlosser said:

OK set aside the GPU thing for the time being.

 

My Computer has 32 logical processors, it benchmarks in the top 1% in terms of speed. I let the Ray tracing run. a few minutes before 3 hours it threw an error about photons (I think that's what it said) and never completed. But seriously 3 hours?!?!?!? Rendering to a WXGA+ resolution (440x900) 72ppi. nothing crazy. I was doing an interior render and I also tried an exterior and the same error occurred 2 hours into the render. I do not have any terrain or plants in my plan.

 

They are right about your video card not helping your for 3D rendering in x11.  X13 would be required for that.  I'm not expert on CA but you might try posting a screen shot of your CPU ray trace render options - e.g. (Include light and advanced)

 

 

I'm new here but some helpful advice I got was put your really nice computer specs in your signature (in case you post again) and the version of CA you are using.   

[Joe_Carrick]

With X12 and before, I almost never let a render go beyond 7-8 passes, and usually it was only 3-4.  The benefits of more passes is negligible.

 

BTW, the RTX4000 is not nearly as good as an RTX3000 series for Ray Tracing.

[Electromen]

I always limit CPU renders to 10 passes but even with a fast computer it usually took about 50 min.

Now that I bought a new computer with NVIDIA 3080 TI 12GB, with GPU renders, the first view is immediate, realistic results take about 10 sec.

1000 samples for a high quality takes about 1 min. 20 sec.

Of course this is X13 Premier

[Dermot]

Quote

 

My Computer has 32 logical processors, it benchmarks in the top 1% in terms of speed. I let the Ray tracing run. a few minutes before 3 hours it threw an error about photons (I think that's what it said) and never completed. But seriously 3 hours?!?!?!? Rendering to a WXGA+ resolution (440x900) 72ppi. nothing crazy. I was doing an interior render and I also tried an exterior and the same error occurred 2 hours into the render. I do not have any terrain or plants in my plan.

 

 

You should probably not ignore error messages when you get them.  My guess is that there is something in your model that is causing the performance problems.

 

Here are a couple of tech articles that might help you:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-03093/message-unable-to-perform-photon-mapping.html

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00010/speeding-up-a-ray-trace.html

 

If not, then you might want to either post a plan or contact technical support.

 

 

[Kbird1]

There is an old thread from 4-5 years ago called Lets Raytrace with a lot of good advise for those with Older versions of Chief........

 

 

[Kbird1]

On 3/15/2022 at 10:57 PM, Kbird1 said:

M.

 

* If considering an update to X13 , don't wait too long as once X14 is release it will cost you another yr on the Bill , x13 will give you a "free" X14 as well since you'll have SSA again. 

 

 

Just thought I'd mention Chief Upgrades went on Sale today till April 11th , I just got the Email now.....

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/offers/?utm_source=sendinblue&utm_campaign=2 May 19-202022 Dallas 2-Day Training Upg&utm_medium=email#upgrade

 

 

 

Mick.

[mrdese]

>>Any suggestions as to what is causing these performance problems would be a HUGE help. <<

 

I I where you, I'd stop trying CA render to your liking.

I am no evangelist of (GNU) Blender but, am a in the -90's weekly user turned daily. Last few years it has grown to become an amazing piece of kit, today got patrons like MS, Apple.. Big studios do Blender CGI

Try this,

- from a CA 3D view, export "3D COLLADA model (*.DAE)

- install Blender(.org)

- (File/)import the exported dae

- hit that Display Render Viewport Shading button

get blown away - you can spin your 3D view rendered in real time

 

Then there is how to set up Camera and lights. Atmospheric lighting, depth of field, some hours learning.

My most advanced to-client rendering, from CA export, in 4K, ~5 minutes

 

Have a look for yourself what Blender rendering was capable of 8 years ago; 20 Jaw Dropping Architectural Renders — Blender Guru.

Today, for us Architects, atmospheric lighting biggest difference those 8 years ago render

 

There is a profession, being good at in Adobe Photoshop tweaking Architect renderings. They are dinosaurs, as Architects hiring them.

 

Sorry CA but, You can't win 'em all..

 

[VHampton]

10 hours ago, bdillard1 said:

I'm new here but some helpful advice I got was put your really nice computer specs in your signature (in case you post again) and the version of CA you are using.   

 

Yes... Agreed. They should make the signature specs. a requirement in signing up so that new folks aren't unintentionally given a cold welcome. The signature helps in allowing members to be of help. 

 

Regarding a general observation, it could be any number of things. Like too many 3D objects in the plan for example. Anything with large surface counts can cause the RayTrace process to become laborious even with a good work horse of a computer. 

 

Suggestion... try turning some object(s) off, and see how that goes. Sometimes this can be the culprit. 3D cars for example from the 3D sketch warehouse can often have over 11megs per object which is huge. Same for furniture and things. Chief's library however has an excellent inventory with lower surface counts, yet sometimes too many of them will eventually add up, and in turn, bog the plan file down. Not just for renderings, but in redrawing 2D layout views. 

 

Alternatively, open a new plan and build a really simple house. It usually only takes a few minutes using the auto roof. Add some windows, and give the Ray Trace a test run. If it's a nice glossy result with great refraction on the glass (without taking more than a dozen passes), then the solution could very well be narrowed down to how large the troublesome plan file might be. 

 

Chief also has sample plans available to explore and download. You could also take a look at one of those and see how fast it does under the RayTrace option just to get a better sense of perspective on what might be the issue. 

 

All the best to you with trouble shooting the possible cause.

 

...and per Joe - set a limit on the Ray Trace to around 20 or so. They do get better with each pass, but at a certain point, the clarity is almost indiscernible between 20 minutes and and 60 minutes. It depends on how perfect you need it to be I guess. Some of the rendering professional companies leave them on overnight!  

 

That said, Chief can do an excellent job when the ingredients are just right - and more importantly, when the hardware meets the specs. A farm truck may never win a drag race against a turbo boosted Chevy Nova, but it can get the job done. Again, that's why the signature spec.s get asked for so often. The program settings may just need some fine tuning. 

 

All the best.      

[mrdese]

9 hours ago, bdillard1 said:

They are right about your video card not helping your for 3D rendering in x11.  X13 would be required for that.  I'm not expert on CA but you might try posting a screen shot of your CPU ray trace render options - e.g. (Include light and advanced)

 

 

I'm new here but some helpful advice I got was put your really nice computer specs in your signature (in case you post again) and the version of CA you are using.   

That signature thing, I would not mind much. Hav'nt read it but my best bet that old besserwizzer  

[MarckusW]

Prior to my current build and because I have also worked with broadcast cameras and the evolution in digital raw I ran dual xeons cpus and updated videos cards every two or so years. Due to the xeon windows 10 mouse freeze issue that would return after every update and the impending move to 11 which is pretty much end of life for older xeons I did a new build last year. The final build with xeons was with a 2080 which was for working in Davinci Resolve and Adobe products. 

 

All this having been said...

 

1. You can get great PBR Ray Traces on a 2080 so any of you who can find a 2070 or above should jump on it for a cheaper solution.

 

2. Prior to GPU ray tracing I would set up a series of CPU ray traces on the xeons and run them all night. I always personally preferred at least 30 pass. I needed a digital negative to take into Lightroom, Photoshop and in my case Davinci Resolve as to the tool set is phenomenal if you know how to use it. 

 

               (None of these with ever give you the result of exporting to a Ray Trace Engine format such as 3DS or DAE and working in Lumion or similar. Although with the advent of 13 and GPU-PBR CA has really up their game. A few more controls... and CA will be a stand alone solution. At least that is my hope.)

 

Back to CPU ray tracing:

It is more about cores than processor speed. I used 2 towers:

        I-7 5960 extreme with 16 virtual cores 3MHz (remember GPU is not being used) and GTX 1070

        Dual Xeon 32 virtual cores and 2.6MHz with an RTX 2080 and prior and AMD equal to the 1070. (remember GPU is not being used)

 

What does this mean in real time. 16 x 3 = 48 and 32 x 2.6 = 83.2  When CPU ray tracing those number corresponded to the time needed. It the 16 core took an hour to create an image the 32 core took 35 minutes. 

 

I did 1000s of these images and compared to what I can do with PBR with 5000 passes in about 5 minutes on a 3080ti with a finish in lightroom, honestly the old CPU images are ghastly. 

 

If you are going to CPU ray trace:

 

The number of lights you have on in the house will slow you down. This means if you are ray tracing a home interior make sure you turn off the lights for all areas of the home you are not ray tracing. 

 

If it is a large home or building you can also make a copy of it and remove the parts of the building you are not ray tracing. It is simple math of how much you are crunching.

 

With 32 virtual cores and a fast processor speed you should be able to get a pass in no more than a minute in a house under 2000 sq ft. The larger the house the correspondingly slower it gets. 

 

Using a backdrop adds time. Using materials you download as jpegs from a distributer's site and imported as material adds time. Having the terrain turned on adds time. Having a second building in the image adds time.

 

If you want to send me your plan I will run it on the 16 and the current AMD 32 core in CPU RT and see what happens. 

 

Here is exactly what you should not do. Full house loaded up with 3D objects, some from CA and others created with jpegs of manufacturers imported as textures with a full terrain, CA winter forest backdrop and a 2nd building on the lot visible through the windows with the backdrop. The PBR ran 5500+- passes as I wasn't paying attention. Around 7 minutes. The 2nd is a CPU ray traces using the same saved camera and lighting at 30 passes which took 40 minutes. Finished in Lightroom. You get to guess which is the GPU and CPU.

 

 

 

 

        

[bdillard1]

"The number of lights you have on in the house will slow you down. This means if you are ray tracing a home interior make sure you turn off the lights for all areas of the home you are not ray tracing." - that is a great tip  - I didn't think about that.

 

I was going to offer the same if he posted his plan with the camera angle in question but I only have x13 - not sure it would be an apples to apples comparison if I upgraded and tested.