Saved Plan View "Prompt to Save" gives no warning when hiding a layer in its layer set

[Michael_Gia]

I don't know if I switched something in a preference but I don't get the prompt, "The saved plan view "xxx" has been modified since if was last saved.  Would you like to save the current settings?", when I hide a particular layer in its layer set.

 

Or is this normal behaviour? I could've sworn it used to give this warning when anything at all was modified in a Saved Plan View.

Modifying the visibility of something in a layer set is pretty major and should come with a warning when closing the Saved Plan View, no?

 

If it is the case then this needs to be fixed, I think. 

 

 

[Dermot]

Modifying any of your layer settings does not actually modify any of the data that is stored with your saved plan view or camera view.   You should not get a prompt in this case.

 

Changing your active layer set or any of the other active annotation defaults does and you should get a prompt, unless you have selected either "Always Save" or "Never Save" for your saved plan view.

 

[SHCanada2]

1 hour ago, Dermot said:

Modifying any of your layer settings does not actually modify any of the data that is stored with your saved plan view or camera view.   You should not get a prompt in this case.

 

Changing your active layer set or any of the other active annotation defaults does and you should get a prompt, unless you have selected either "Always Save" or "Never Save" for your saved plan view.

I personally would prefer it this way, I change, add layers to layer sets fairly often. having a prompt would be a headache for me.

[Michael_Gia]

1 hour ago, Dermot said:

unless you have selected either "Always Save" or "Never Save" for your saved plan view.

 

I have the DBX set to "Prompt to Save"

 

Example:

If I am working on a Saved Plan View and I turn off the Stairs Layer to temporarily hide them, I don't get the prompt when closing the Saved Plan View.

 

 

Shouldn't I be getting a prompt?  I thought I always did in the past when affecting visibility of layers?

 

(now I think I remember why I always hated Saved Plan Views, I'm trying to make them work though)

 

 

[Dermot]

No and no.  Please re-read my post.

[MarkMc]

1 hour ago, Michael_Gia said:

why I always hated Saved Plan Views, I'm trying to make them work though

Layersets have always worked this way even if you were to go back to annosets.

Solution I use that's may help ...

have a SVP (or more if you want one per floor) "working" which uses a layerset also "working" and a default set also set to working. That SVP and layerset never gets sent to layout. Actually I set all others to never save so that I'm not asked. IF there is a good reason to change a layerset then I save it when I make the change.

That allows for changing dimension defaults and CAD layer within the working set, and indiscriminate changes to the working layer set since it never goes to layout. BUT those changes can be reflected in the appropriate SPV/layerset that does go to layout.

 

Then tell my clients, who all use Chief, to NEVER change ANY other layerset or default set (annoset) UNLESS they absolutely know what they are doing and why.

[Michael_Gia]

2 hours ago, MarkMc said:

Solution I use that's may help

Thanks Mark. That’s a great approach. 
 

Up until now I only ever used SPV’s for foundation, electrical and site plan, all of which have their own specific defaults and layer sets but I would never alter those and only send them to layout. (As you mentioned)

Since I’ve been getting used to using SPV’s more and more I’ve gotten careless and never realized I wasn’t getting a warning for changes to layer sets. 
 

I think I would at prefer a dedicated “save button” in the layer set DBX.  That way temporary/on the fly, changes don’t affect any other Views that shares the same layer set unless I specifically select a “save” layer set button.  
 

I hope that was clear. What do you think?  
Necessary?…or have you just developed the discipline not to mess with Layer Sets unless you really need to?

(not sure if my adhd can handle that)

 

Thanks again. 

[MarkMc]

15 hours ago, Michael_Gia said:

I hope that was clear. What do you think?  
Necessary?…or have you just developed the discipline not to mess with Layer Sets unless you really need to?

(not sure if my adhd can handle that)

Yes that's clear. What did you do before SPVs? that behavior for layersets has been around longer than I have. Back in the day-before annosets- sending to layout had the option to create a new layerset, think that was actually the default. Downside was it led to far too many layersets and little idea of what each one was.

 

No I don't think it's necessary...I'd bet you can manage to work with the system I use. As I mentioned I have all of my clients use this and most are not particularly adept CA operators (why they hire me and they all manage. Personally I don't want extra warnings popping up (with my ADHD), I like control.

16 hours ago, Michael_Gia said:

That way temporary/on the fly, changes don’t affect any other Views that shares the same layer set unless I specifically select a “save” layer set button.  

Well as outlined below NO views share a layerset unless they are for different floors in which case I see no need anyway. If there is a need to have a different layerset for another floor see number 9 and 10 below.

Thought about this a bit more and just to make sure I'm being clear. How I deal with it evolved from how I used Annosets. I had each set trigger a layerset (despite being told they were not intended to  do that?) So just as you have

15 hours ago, Michael_Gia said:

foundation, electrical and site plan, all of which have their own specific defaults and layer sets

1. I do that for everything that gets sent to layout-each has it's own default set and layerset. For some clients I keep the layout boxes in the layout template so already linked as I draw in relation to 0,0 (marker set in template).
2. Make sure that the default set has a dedicated layerset  do NOT allow "use active layer set". (this was the one I forgot to mention and can raise havoc)
3. All of those have "save options" set to never so I don't get confused on closing. (should I stay or should I go..)
4. Similarly I like to have a SVP for each discipline set to a specific floor. I often will jump floors while working and that way I (or client) don't mess up the layout.
5. I set any defaults text size to by layer to reduce the number of default sets needed.
6. Keep a working SPV per floor with a working layerset. That layerset can be changed at will. The SPV save setting is a personal pref and matters little. For clients I typically set to never to avoid pop ups. I do want them to save the plan though :)
7. I keep a few default sets that are not tied to any SPV to make dimensioning some things easier and avoid needing to delete points from auto dims.  Example is kitchen cabinets: a layerset that only shows what I want the dimension to snap to; base, wall, appliance centers. The dims all go to the same layer and the dim line is set to proximity fixed. Can also be useful for windows/doors.
8. I'm in the middle of transitioning a client to SPVs and they are used to using some sets for different scalse. I don't use them myself since I use layer for text size which works for everything but rich text and arrows but left them to ease the transition. Not sure if that's a good idea but we're early in the transition.
9. If needed when working it's easy enough to copy a layerset for a discipline then add visible layers to the dedicate layerset in the SPV as soon as done if needed or not if just for reference.
10. I also have a few reference layer sets saved to use with different disciplines/views like demo, roof.... (can be used with number 9 above)

Hope that helps.

[Michael_Gia]

4 hours ago, MarkMc said:

All of those have "save options" set to never so I don't get confused on closing.

This is my point, the 3 options of “prompt to save, always save, never save” are not adding much to our workflow. There’s really only 2 options in effect. 
 

If you turn off windows, for example, in any one of these modes the result is the same. You close the SPV and reopen it with no warning and your windows are turned off.  What is the point of these 3 modes with regard to layer sets?

 

By the way, I pretty much have the same workflow as you described, that is, different layer sets per SPV that go to the layout.  
That’s from when Anno Sets ruled the roost. 
 

 

[Dermot]

Apparently I was not clear enough in my earlier post so let me try to explain this a bit differently.

 

Your views will only keep track of what layer set you are using.  They will not keep track of what the layer settings are for that layer set.  That's the layer set's job, not the view's job.

 

If you open a layer set and change a layer setting, such as turning objects on/off or change the line color, line style, or line weight, then any views using that layer set will look different.  If you don't want any of your views to change, than don't change these settings.  You won't get a prompt because you did not change anything the view keeps track of.

 

This is no different then changing a material using the Adjust Material Definition tool.  Everything in the plan that is using that material will look different but you won't get a prompt asking you to save your view.

 

Same thing if you change a wall type in the Define Wall Types dialog.  Every wall in your plan that is using that wall type will look different but you won't get a prompt asking you to save the view.

 

 

 

[Chrisb222]

On 1/25/2022 at 6:34 PM, Michael_Gia said:

I think I would at prefer a dedicated “save button” in the layer set DBX.  That way temporary/on the fly, changes don’t affect any other Views that shares the same layer set unless I specifically select a “save” layer set button.  

 

There was discussion along these lines recently which prompted a Suggestion that might interest you:

 

 

[Michael_Gia]

5 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

There was discussion along these lines recently which prompted a Suggestion that might interest you:

Yes that was a great post, to which I gave an upvote to as well as all your other posts on this topic…

Another solution could be a “temporarily hide/show layer” button. This option would not change the layer set.

This is what I was always hoping the little “Object Layer Properties” on the bottom toolbar button would morph into.