Door Material Hierarchy

[fcwilt]

Hi,

 

Using X12.

 

I cannot understand the material hierarchy for doors (and other things as well).

 

I would expect to see in defaults a place to define materials for a basic interior door and exterior door.

 

Then all other door types, like slider (either interior or exterior), would descend from them, material wise.

 

But that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

For example there is a default item under "Materials" for "Doors (Interior)" and "Doors (Exterior)".

 

In this case are they talking about interior and exterior doors OR the interior and exterior surface of a door?

 

What do these materials control - descendent wise?

 

Another example is the specification of a doors interior and exterior trim.

 

Under default "Materials" there is an item "Exterior Trim" but no item for "Interior Trim".

So what determines the default values for a doors interior and exterior trim?

 

 

I was hoping to find that I could change one default material, say the exterior surface of an exterior door, and all exterior doors, regardless of type (swing, slider, etc) would be be updated.

 

Doesn't seem to work that way.

 

Color me confused.

 

 

Are there any articles or charts the explain the material hierarchy in X12?

 

Thanks.

 

Frederick

 

 

[rgardner]

1 hour ago, fcwilt said:

Are there any articles or charts the explain the material hierarchy in X12?

When you are in that dbx did you notice the help button at the bottom?  It will guide you to direct information for what you are looking for. 

[Renerabbitt]

15 hours ago, fcwilt said:

Under default "Materials" there is an item "Exterior Trim" but no item for "Interior Trim".

So what determines the default values for a doors interior and exterior trim?

Just to be clear, the Residential Template in Chief Architect Premier X-12 under Default Settings\Interior Door\Materials\ has a designation for both Interior and Exterior Trim. Will you check to confirm?

[fcwilt]

33 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Just to be clear, the Residential Template in Chief Architect Premier X-12 under Default Settings\Interior Door\Materials\ has a designation for both Interior and Exterior Trim. Will you check to confirm?

 

I verified that new plans would use that template and created a new plan.

 

Under defaults for Materials there is Door (Interior), Door (Exterior), Exterior Trim but no Interior Trim.

 

Testing reveals that Room Molding controls the trim for interior doors.

 

Thanks.

 

Frederick

[Renerabbitt]

2 hours ago, fcwilt said:

 

I verified that new plans would use that template and created a new plan.

 

Under defaults for Materials there is Door (Interior), Door (Exterior), Exterior Trim but no Interior Trim.

 

Testing reveals that Room Molding controls the trim for interior doors.

 

Thanks.

 

Frederick

Ahh, I see the disconnect, goto Default Settings\Doors\Interior Doors\Materials and you will find your trim, exterior and interior.

[Alaskan_Son]

32 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Ahh, I see the disconnect, goto Default Settings\Doors\Interior Doors\Materials and you will find your trim, exterior and interior.

I think the goal is to understand the hierarchy for more efficient control.  Regarding door trim for Interior doors for example:

 

-The General Material Defaults for Exterior Trim and Room Moldings control the Interior Door Defaults (assuming you have Materials set to Use Default).  
-If the Interior Door is set to Use Separate Trim (bottom of General panel) then the Room Moldings material is used on the Interior side of the door and the Exterior Trim material is used on the Exterior side of the door.  Otherwise, Room Molding material is used on both sides

-You can optionally bipass the overriding General Material Defaults by setting the materials right there in the Interior Door Defaults (not set to Use Default) but then you lose the benefits that come with using a single overriding default.  

[Renerabbitt]

29 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

set to Use Separate Trim

Off-topic, still bummed that this is not a captured\transferable option for the Style Palette Tool

[fcwilt]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I think the goal is to understand the hierarchy for more efficient control.  Regarding door trim for Interior doors for example:

 

 

Yes indeed.

I expected a hierarchy something like the simplified diagram below:

Instead there is something less "structured".

Library Doors appear to inherit from Materials: Doors (Interior), Doors (Exterior), Exterior Trim and Room Molding

Non-library Doors appear to inherit a surface color of Bone from somewhere but I have not found it yet.

Windows appear to inherit from Materials: Window Sash, Exterior Trim and Room Molding with exterior sash color set directly in the Window defaults.

Unlike Doors which have default settings for different types of doors (hinged, sliding, pocket, etc) there appears to be just one set of defaults for Windows.

It all works but it isn't setup the way my mind works (if you can call what my mind does "working").

 

Frederick

[LevisL]

42 minutes ago, fcwilt said:

Non-library Doors appear to inherit a surface color of Bone from somewhere but I have not found it yet.

 

I'm curious to know if that can be changed as well. I hate always having to change that ugly Bone colour!

[BenMerritt]

1 hour ago, fcwilt said:

Non-library Doors appear to inherit a surface color of Bone from somewhere but I have not found it yet.

If I recall correctly (haven't worked on doors for a while), this should be coming from your interior/exterior door defaults. Basically, symbol doors use the plan's "generic" default materials, while parametric (non-library) doors pull their materials from a specific default door.

Also note that unless you check "Separate Trim and Materials on Each Side" (General panel), interior doors will only use the interior material, not the exterior material.

[fcwilt]

23 minutes ago, BenMerritt said:

If I recall correctly (haven't worked on doors for a while), this should be coming from your interior/exterior door defaults. Basically, symbol doors use the plan's "generic" default materials, while parametric (non-library) doors pull their materials from a specific default door.

Also note that unless you check "Separate Trim and Materials on Each Side" (General panel), interior doors will only use the interior material, not the exterior material.

 

It's not a big deal as I don't use non-library doors. The issue of the source of the color is just one of those curious things in Chief Architect.

I setup a test plan with some very obvious bold colors for various defaults to see where they ended up.

 

Materials - Door (Exterior) set to RED

Materials - Door (Interior)  set to GREEN

Materials - Exterior Trim    set to BLUE

Materials - Room Molding set to YELLOW

Materials - Window Sash  set to PURPLE

Window - Exterior Sash    set to ORANGE

 

I verified that all door and window objects were using the default materials. All the colors appeared where I expected them to with the exception of the non-library door which had the Bone color for the door surfaces.

 

[Alaskan_Son]

2 hours ago, LevisL said:

 

I'm curious to know if that can be changed as well. I hate always having to change that ugly Bone colour!

 

Took me a few minutes to figure this one out, but it can be changed.  Long story short, the material for those Parametric (non-library symbol or "smart") Door Styles seems to be sort of hard coded but you can trick Chief into changing the referenced material. Here's how...

1. Open the desired Door Default and take note of the door style being used.  If a parametric door style is already being used all you need to do is click on the Material tab and change your material there.  You're done.  If you're using a Library door though...
2. Change the Door Style to one of the parametric door style (other than Glass Slab).
3. Click on the Material tab and change the Door (Interior) and/or Door (Exterior) color to what you want the default to be and click Okay.
4. Click Okay again to close out your Door Default.
5. Open the Door Default right back up and change your Door Style back to the proper door (you should have taken note of which one it was earlier so you can quickly search the library to find it).  Click Okay.

Now you can drop one of those doors into your plan and whenever you change from the default library door to one of the parametric door styles, it should use those new material settings.  Please note that you need to do this for each and every one of your Door Defaults though. 

[LevisL]

19 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Took me a few minutes to figure this one out, but it can be changed.  Long story short, the material for those Parametric (non-library symbol or "smart") Door Styles seems to be sort of hard coded but you can trick Chief into changing the referenced material.

 

That's awesome Michael! How the heck did you figure that out?! Now I can finally have white glass panel doors even though my default exterior door is a six-panel door. Definitely getting an upvote for that! 

[fcwilt]

Many thanks all who responded!