Creating a Custom Window

[kwhitt]

I can't find much on this, but need to create a custom window to act as an Eze Breeze 4-Track Vertical Panel.  I've been able to get what I want in a 3D view, but the plan symbol is offset by 4.5" and is protruding outside the rough-in.  I know why it's happening as I offset the origin for the symbol to make it work in the 3D view.  Had I not done this, the window in 3D projects beyond the building.  It's like I can't have both in alignment.  I have tried CAD Block Management to create a new 2D block and moving the origin, but it's not working.  I'd appreciate any help with this.  Attached is the symbol.  Thanks, Kevin

Eze Breeze 4 Track Vertical Screen Panel.calibz

[Alaskan_Son]

Chief has always attached window symbols TO the wall rather than inserting them IN the wall as I believe they should.  If you want to stick with the window symbol there are a few ways to deal with that, but here is one...

1. Create a new CAD block with a solid fill.   This could even be the same 2D Block automatically produced by the window symbol. 
2. Open the Window Symbol, click on the Plan View tab, and change the Plan View Sections to 2.  This will Remove the CAD block being attached to the wall and replace it with a generic window Block.  You can play with this Plan View display, adjusting the various dimensions in the dialog, etc. for some situations to get what you want, but for your example, I think you're just going to cover it anyway, so I would just leave it alone.
3. Place your new block in the desired position and move it to the appropriate drawing group (in front of the automatically generated block)..

 

What I typically do myself though is skip the Window Symbol entirely and just use a normal Fixture Symbol set to Inserts Into Wall (options tab).

[kwhitt]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Chief has always attached window symbols TO the wall rather than inserting them IN the wall as I believe they should.  If you want to stick with the window symbol there are a few ways to deal with that, but here is one...

1. Create a new CAD block with a solid fill.   This could even be the same 2D Block automatically produced by the window symbol. 
2. Open the Window Symbol, click on the Plan View tab, and change the Plan View Sections to 2.  This will Remove the CAD block being attached to the wall and replace it with a generic window Block.  You can play with this Plan View display, adjusting the various dimensions in the dialog, etc. for some situations to get what you want, but for your example, I think you're just going to cover it anyway, so I would just leave it alone.
3. Place your new block in the desired position and move it to the appropriate drawing group (in front of the automatically generated block)..

 

What I typically do myself though is skip the Window Symbol entirely and just use a normal Fixture Symbol set to Inserts Into Wall (options tab).

Thanks Michael.  I'll give this a go tomorrow.  I appreciate the help.  Kevin

[kwhitt]

On 8/1/2020 at 3:47 PM, Alaskan_Son said:

Chief has always attached window symbols TO the wall rather than inserting them IN the wall as I believe they should.  If you want to stick with the window symbol there are a few ways to deal with that, but here is one...

1. Create a new CAD block with a solid fill.   This could even be the same 2D Block automatically produced by the window symbol. 
2. Open the Window Symbol, click on the Plan View tab, and change the Plan View Sections to 2.  This will Remove the CAD block being attached to the wall and replace it with a generic window Block.  You can play with this Plan View display, adjusting the various dimensions in the dialog, etc. for some situations to get what you want, but for your example, I think you're just going to cover it anyway, so I would just leave it alone.
3. Place your new block in the desired position and move it to the appropriate drawing group (in front of the automatically generated block)..

 

What I typically do myself though is skip the Window Symbol entirely and just use a normal Fixture Symbol set to Inserts Into Wall (options tab).

Michael - thanks again for the post.  I have no clue what you're telling me to do here.  I've looked in the knowledge base and haven't found anything specific to creating window symbols.  Can you point me to another post or perhaps a video?  Kevin

[DzinEye]

2 hours ago, kwhitt said:

Michael - thanks again for the post.  I have no clue what you're telling me to do here.  I've looked in the knowledge base and haven't found anything specific to creating window symbols.  Can you point me to another post or perhaps a video?  Kevin

Kevin... there's a fair amount of info in @Alaskan_Son's post, so without a more specific question I don't know what you understand or not... if anything!   I assume you understand how to create your own symbols?  One of the key elements he's explaining at the end is that when you do create symbol for your new window, in the 'create symbol' dbx, under 'symbol category'  instead of choosing 'window' symbol, choose 'exterior fixture' from the list.  Choose 'Show Advanced Options' then under 'options' you will have checkboxes, from you ocan can choose to 'insert 'INTO the wall' when you place it... and don't forget to set the depth.

The other things he's explaining is how to change out and adjust the 2D Cad symbol.   Honestly, I'm a bit confused by his explanation on this part too (if that's the part you don't get).  What I've done, and perhaps what he's saying to do in a different way is this;  If you've selected 'show advanced options' then you'll see an option for 2D Block... there you can choose to generate a block, or use a default window block, and make adjustments to how it displays.

[kwhitt]

9 hours ago, DzinEye said:

Kevin... there's a fair amount of info in @Alaskan_Son's post, so without a more specific question I don't know what you understand or not... if anything!   I assume you understand how to create your own symbols?  One of the key elements he's explaining at the end is that when you do create symbol for your new window, in the 'create symbol' dbx, under 'symbol category'  instead of choosing 'window' symbol, choose 'exterior fixture' from the list.  Choose 'Show Advanced Options' then under 'options' you will have checkboxes, from you ocan can choose to 'insert 'INTO the wall' when you place it... and don't forget to set the depth.

The other things he's explaining is how to change out and adjust the 2D Cad symbol.   Honestly, I'm a bit confused by his explanation on this part too (if that's the part you don't get).  What I've done, and perhaps what he's saying to do in a different way is this;  If you've selected 'show advanced options' then you'll see an option for 2D Block... there you can choose to generate a block, or use a default window block, and make adjustments to how it displays.

Good morning, Mark - I am very comfortable with making symbols.  I just don't understand how to get the plan symbol to line up with the 3D symbol in this case.  The 2D symbol projects outside of the house.  I attached the Eze Breeze 3D symbol I made showing the problem in the original post.  I wasn't understanding Michael's explanation for how to correct the 2D symbol.  Thanks!

[kwhitt]

9 hours ago, DzinEye said:

Kevin... there's a fair amount of info in @Alaskan_Son's post, so without a more specific question I don't know what you understand or not... if anything!   I assume you understand how to create your own symbols?  One of the key elements he's explaining at the end is that when you do create symbol for your new window, in the 'create symbol' dbx, under 'symbol category'  instead of choosing 'window' symbol, choose 'exterior fixture' from the list.  Choose 'Show Advanced Options' then under 'options' you will have checkboxes, from you ocan can choose to 'insert 'INTO the wall' when you place it... and don't forget to set the depth.

The other things he's explaining is how to change out and adjust the 2D Cad symbol.   Honestly, I'm a bit confused by his explanation on this part too (if that's the part you don't get).  What I've done, and perhaps what he's saying to do in a different way is this;  If you've selected 'show advanced options' then you'll see an option for 2D Block... there you can choose to generate a block, or use a default window block, and make adjustments to how it displays.

 

The Eze Breeze Symbols look great and are sitting in the right place in 3D, but not on the 2D plan view.

[Alaskan_Son]

4 hours ago, kwhitt said:

I am very comfortable with making symbols.  I just don't understand how to get the plan symbol to line up with the 3D symbol in this case.

You can't.  Like I said in my post, Chief does not insert window symbols into walls as I believe they should.  Instead, the symbols essentially attach to the surface of the wall.  Because of this, there is no way to move the 2D Block.  You have to place it manually.   Try reading and following my instructions again.

 

On 8/1/2020 at 11:47 AM, Alaskan_Son said:

Chief has always attached window symbols TO the wall rather than inserting them IN the wall as I believe they should.  If you want to stick with the window symbol there are a few ways to deal with that, but here is one...

1. Create a new CAD block with a solid fill.   This could even be the same 2D Block automatically produced by the window symbol. 
2. Open the Window Symbol, click on the Plan View tab, and change the Plan View Sections to 2.  This will Remove the CAD block being attached to the wall and replace it with a generic window Block.  You can play with this Plan View display, adjusting the various dimensions in the dialog, etc. for some situations to get what you want, but for your example, I think you're just going to cover it anyway, so I would just leave it alone.
3. Place your new block in the desired position and move it to the appropriate drawing group (in front of the automatically generated block)..

 

What I typically do myself though is skip the Window Symbol entirely and just use a normal Fixture Symbol set to Inserts Into Wall (options tab).

 

In Step 1 you are creating the block you will use to place in the wall.

In Step 2 you are removing the automatically created block...the one that attaches itself to the wall.

In Step 3 you are manually positioning your block.

 

The last part (in red) is what I usually do myself.  If you use something other than a Window Symbol (like the one you posted above...which again attaches TO the wall), then the 2D Block works fine because the object gets placed IN the wall instead.  Only downside to the Fixture Symbol method is that the glass is not automatically transparent in Vector Views.

[rlackore]

I know this is a hack, but I use two double-hungs, stacked and mulled, to simulate the typical Eze-breeze four-stack unit:

 

It's not perfect, but it's relatively quick and easy and doesn't require a lot of messing around. It's not perfect in close-ups, but for most situations, it works reasonably well.

[DzinEye]

If you open the symbol and select NONE as your 2D block you'll get this result, which may be good enough ?

[kwhitt]

7 minutes ago, rlackore said:

I know this is a hack, but I use two double-hungs, stacked and mulled, to simulate the typical Eze-breeze four-stack unit:

 

It's not perfect, but it's relatively quick and easy and doesn't require a lot of messing around. It's not perfect in close-ups, but for most situations, it works reasonably well.

Robert - Thanks.  That's a pretty good hack and no way you could tell from a distance.  This is probably what I should have started with.  Kevin

[kwhitt]

2 minutes ago, DzinEye said:

If you open the symbol and select NONE as your 2D block you'll get this result, which may be good enough ?

Good idea Mark.  That's definitely good enough.  I can always place something over the opening if it needs clarifying

[Alaskan_Son]

4 minutes ago, DzinEye said:

If you open the symbol and select NONE as your 2D block you'll get this result,

Good thought on selecting NONE.  I hadn't thought of that and not sure I ever even noticed that was an option.  Quick bonus tip...

Tthe automatic block you get when you select NONE is based on the window Type you have selected in the Options tab. 

[Renerabbitt]

I've requested a fix for this, I'm sure @Alaskan_Son remember as he was helping me understand the issues involved. Almost a sore subject for me, as windows are the single most unrealistic element in Chief when I take models to render.
I know I created a beautiful window symbol that works well but with limitations. Namely that the stretching planes simply do not function properly so that this window only works in a 2x4 wall, unless I were to put a bunch more work into it.

RABS MILGARD STYLE LINE WINDOW.calibz

[MN_JohnH]

I have had problems with squirrels chewing through the ez screen plastic windows so for our current 3 season porch project I found these https://www.monray.com/
glass wall products. I just drew a very simple representation of one in their 81.25x37.25 size and I have the plan file attached if anyone wants it. If you do like Alaskan Son says and save as a fixture and have it insert into wall it works pretty well. Although I don't know if you can stretch it like a regular window. Anyway, it was the first time I had done this and I was happy with how it turned out. It will work for my purposes for this project.

Mon-Ray glass wall 37.25x81.25.plan

[mthd97]

@MN_JohnH wrote “l have had problems with squirrels chewing through the ez screen plastic windows” 
 

We use Aluminum in my region and we don’t have squirrels lol. I couldn’t stop laughing when picturing nutty squirrels chewing the window frame. I wonder if the beavers up your way chew the timber window frames as well ? Call in the animal catchers and bag those critters. 
 

Sounds like you need more control in your DBX to inset or offset your window frames in CA ? Someone could make another suggestion about this.