kwhitt

Help with Story and a Half

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I've got an As-built where the floor platform on the second floor extends beyond the first floor framing by 12" on the eve sides.  It is a story and a half home and the rafters meet these floor joists as shown in the attached drawing.  I have followed the training video on Chief's website by ignoring second floor and raising the roof.  This still creates a wall with siding where the fascia board should be.  Is there a setting I am missing somewhere or am I going about it all wrong?  I've also attached a simple version of the file.  Thanks, Kevin

Quaker Road_Detail.jpg

siding.jpg

CHF_Story and Half_07-01-20.zip

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If this is an as-built there is probably a large fascia board and maybe a frieze and shadow as well? Got any pix of what you are trying to accomplish? 

 

Did you try setting your roof to plumb cut and giving it the size of fascia/sub-fascia that it would take to build it and cover the rafters?   

 

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3 minutes ago, rgardner said:

If this is an as-built there is probably a large fascia board and maybe a frieze and shadow as well? Got any pix of what you are trying to accomplish? 

 

Did you try setting your roof to plumb cut and giving it the size of fascia/sub-fascia that it would take to build it and cover the rafters?   

 

Hi Ryan - thanks for the response.  The AutoCAD cross-section above shows exactly what you mention (the large fascia, frieze, and angled shadow board).  I was hoping there was a way for Chief to handle this situation out of the box with the proper square cut, so that the framing would generate automatically.  There will be an addition added to the main part of the house that will be framed the same way without me have to manually add the rafters and soffits.

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4 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

Hi Ryan - thanks for the response.  The AutoCAD cross-section above shows exactly what you mention (the large fascia, frieze, and angled shadow board).  I was hoping there was a way for Chief to handle this situation out of the box with the proper square cut, so that the framing would generate automatically.  There will be an addition added to the main part of the house that will be framed the same way without me have to manually add the rafters and soffits.

Although this type of construction does happen alot I would guess there are way more that are single story homes without a "half story" above so the oob settings are generally set for that.  Although I am pretty sure that the oob template from chief has plumb cut set so I am guessing your template has been changed to that.  But in every job you are going to need to set your defaults for that job.  So you should set your roof structure and fascia for the individual job if it is different than your template.  If you do just these or more of these style of construction jobs then you could definitely set it to default to those settings.

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Probably not understanding, but here I used a rafter tail (just a random one) to change the rafter.

 

ct1.png.64f35797c69ef8c6043f75b1437d0324.png

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34 minutes ago, solver said:

Probably not understanding, but here I used a rafter tail (just a random one) to change the rafter.

 

ct1.png.64f35797c69ef8c6043f75b1437d0324.png

Eric - thanks for the input.  I'm not sure how I can describe it any better than what is shown in the cross-section drawing in the original post above (posted here again).  The second story floor joists extend beyond the 1st floor framing by 12" at the eves.  The rafters are square cut (the top point of which aligns with the outside top of the 2 x 10 joists).  I am wondering how I can do this in Chief Architect without having the second story walls built at the eves. Is this something I need to draw manually to get it exactly like my drawing?  Thanks again, Kevin

Quaker Road_Detail.jpg

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There is no birdsmouth cut.  The rafters are fastened to the sides of the 2 x 10 joists and spaced similarly.  I tried using an invisible wall at the eves and a wall with a single layer of 3/4" material to act as the fascia board, but I never could get the rafters to align to the joists as needed.  I was just wondering if there was a way for Chief to handle this situation by way of settings in the roof DBX.  

 

1 hour ago, solver said:

Probably not understanding, but here I used a rafter tail (just a random one) to change the rafter.

 

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My rafter tail suggestion was a way to cut the rafters back, and get the little angled fascia to automatically generate, but that may not work. I think you can reshape a tail but not change its length.

 

5 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

I was just wondering if there was a way for Chief to handle this situation by way of settings in the roof DBX.

 

Not that I know of.

 

Should be able to drop the roof until alignment is correct, then group select the rafters and shorten them.

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Kind of like this?

 

This one is using a rafter tail to bring the rafter square cut like you show:

image.thumb.png.6c217a68666cf89c156f661f7d0a26cf.png

 

This one is without a rafter tail:

image.thumb.png.ad17081a3d20260347e0ed62f60a10cc.png

All auto framing and roof tools.

 

There are probably other ways to get it exactly as you are showing but I am guessing it would require as Erick mentions manual manipulation after auto roof got you to this point.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, solver said:

My rafter tail suggestion was a way to cut the rafters back, and get the little angled fascia to automatically generate, but that may not work. I think you can reshape a tail but not change its length.

 

 

Not that I know of.

 

Should be able to drop the roof until alignment is correct, then group select the rafters and shorten them.

Thanks Eric.  I now see what you were doing with the rafter tail.  When you say "group select the rafters and shorten them", what does that look like?  In an elevation view  by manually resizing or do you mean via DBX?

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1 hour ago, rgardner said:

Kind of like this?

 

This one is using a rafter tail to bring the rafter square cut like you show:

image.thumb.png.6c217a68666cf89c156f661f7d0a26cf.png

 

This one is without a rafter tail:

image.thumb.png.ad17081a3d20260347e0ed62f60a10cc.png

All auto framing and roof tools.

 

There are probably other ways to get it exactly as you are showing but I am guessing it would require as Erick mentions manual manipulation after auto roof got you to this point.

 

 

 

 

Ryan, Thanks.  That's pretty darn close.  Is it possible for me to remove all the soffit/fascia boards?  I know you can disable sub-fascias.  Do I go about this by zeroing the size fields out?  I ask as I can manually draw them as it's only two sides - figure I would do it with a stacked molding line.  Also, how did you get the roof sheathing to extend beyond the rafter end?  Would you mind sharing the file?  

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17 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

Thanks Eric.  I now see what you were doing with the rafter tail.  When you say "group select the rafters and shorten them", what does that look like?  In an elevation view  by manually resizing or do you mean via DBX?

 

Since you want the rafter against the floor joist, will you be placing them manually once the shape is correct?

 

Shape one as required in elevation. Open it and check the settings. Group select the others and change them to match.

 

Or, adjust one, delete the others and copy the good one across so they are all next to the joist.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

When you say "group select the rafters and shorten them", what does that look like?

 

Can't speak for Eric, but I would simply use the Stretch CAD tool or a CAD Line along with the Trim tool.  Should only take a few seconds.

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2 minutes ago, solver said:

 

Since you want the rafter against the floor joist, will you be placing them manually once the shape is correct?

 

Shape one as required in elevation. Open it and check the settings. Group select the others and change them to match.

 

Or, adjust one, delete the others and copy the good one across so they are all next to the joist.

 

 

Thank you Sir.  Yes, I think I will manually reshape one and then copy - shouldn't take too long for both sides.  Just a thought - is it possible to create an invisible rafter tail to which I can apply the fascia board?

 

Also, applying this method, I still end up with a little bit of siding at the eve where the frieze board should be.  Was my idea of creating a 3/4" thick exterior wall and calling it a frieze for the eve sides totally off base?

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3 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Can't speak for Eric, but I would simply use the Stretch CAD tool or a CAD Line along with the Trim tool.  Should only take a few seconds.

Thanks Michael.  I'm guessing I would use the trim tool from a plan view and cut all at once.  

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1 minute ago, kwhitt said:

Thanks Michael.  I'm guessing I would use the trim tool from a plan view and cut all at once.  

 Yep.

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58 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

 

Ryan, Thanks.  That's pretty darn close.  Is it possible for me to remove all the soffit/fascia boards?  I know you can disable sub-fascias.  Do I go about this by zeroing the size fields out?  I ask as I can manually draw them as it's only two sides - figure I would do it with a stacked molding line.  Also, how did you get the roof sheathing to extend beyond the rafter end?  Would you mind sharing the file?  

 

Sheathing builds over sub-fascia which you can unselect.  Not sure why you would want to get rid of the fascia itself as that is shown in your pic but yes you can turn it off and zero out anything you don't want.  I forgot to uncheck the soffit material.

 

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2 minutes ago, rgardner said:

 

Sheathing builds over sub-fascia which you can unselect.  Not sure why you would want to get rid of the fascia itself as that is shown in your pic but yes you can turn it off and zero out anything you don't want.  I forgot to uncheck the soffit material.

 

Ryan - very much appreciated.  So the sheathing will follow the sub-fascia even if not selected/used?  Would you mind sharing the file if you still have it?  Kevin

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24 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

Ryan - very much appreciated.  So the sheathing will follow the sub-fascia even if not selected/used?  Would you mind sharing the file if you still have it?  Kevin

I am not very good at remembering to save these files but I happened to still have it open.  Here you go for what it is worth.

kevin whitt plan.plan

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1 minute ago, rgardner said:

I am not very good at remembering to save these files but I happened to still have it open.  Here you go for what it is worth.

kevin whitt plan.plan

 

Thanks!

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Kevin, Here's a plan with a '0' height second floor that can be cantilevered over the first floor to get your 2 x 10 floor joists to extend past the first floor plate. The roof can then be manually lowered to create the overlap of the rafters over the joists. The upside is that it will frame automatically the down side is it may not be practical for your total design intent.

ROOF 1.jpg

ROOF_1.plan

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5 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Kevin, Here's a plan with a '0' height second floor that can be cantilevered over the first floor to get your 2 x 10 floor joists to extend past the first floor plate. The roof can then be manually lowered to create the overlap of the rafters over the joists. The upside is that it will frame automatically the down side is it may not be practical for your total design intent.

ROOF 1.jpg

ROOF_1.plan

Larry - thank you very much for the file.  I'll look at this when I get home tonight.  Kevin

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I'm not sure that simply lowering the roof on a second floor might create the same look, perhaps no need to create a '0' height second floor, just a cantilevered second floor?.

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After re-reading your posts I don't think my plan will help much. Let us know what you end up doing please.

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13 hours ago, HumbleChief said:

After re-reading your posts I don't think my plan will help much. Let us know what you end up doing please.

I'm getting back to this design today.  I'll post the results.  Thanks for the input.

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