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Greetings,

I am trying to learn what to think when ! see this. 

Off hand I would think some edges are not lined up exactly in my plan view.

My plan view gets messy and I suppose a good video on cleaning it up is in order.

Ideally I'd like to see only my walls and roof planes (single lines depicting both-only the outline of the plane and wall, no fascia lines or other stuff which makes it difficult).

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks,

Rocky

problem.jpg

prep school.plan

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It looks like you will need to draw in that "gable end" manually.  That would be a attic wall and then have the roof cut the wall at bottom (option under roof tab in walls Dbx).  You'd then extend the hip roof so its under the new gable end wall - that operation will cut the wall bottom.

 

 

corner1.png

corner2.png

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On 1/9/2019 at 4:26 PM, rockyshepheard said:

Greetings,

I am trying to learn what to think when ! see this. 

Off hand I would think some edges are not lined up exactly in my plan view.

My plan view gets messy and I suppose a good video on cleaning it up is in order.

Ideally I'd like to see only my walls and roof planes (single lines depicting both-only the outline of the plane and wall, no fascia lines or other stuff which makes it difficult).

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks,

Rocky

problem.jpg

prep school.plan

 

Rocky - if I'm understanding your question correctly...you are asking how to get a "plan view" that is simpler to work with.  You need to learn to use "LAYERS".  You are using the "Roof Plan" layerset...which is good.  And...you can open that set and change anything you want.  Line weight, line color...etc.  You can turn layers on and off.  

 

Attached is a very simple video...hope it helps.

 

 

Rocky Roof Fix Plan 1.plan

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2 hours ago, rockyshepheard said:

Greetings,

I am trying to learn what to think when ! see this. 

Off hand I would think some edges are not lined up exactly in my plan view.

My plan view gets messy and I suppose a good video on cleaning it up is in order.

Ideally I'd like to see only my walls and roof planes (single lines depicting both-only the outline of the plane and wall, no fascia lines or other stuff which makes it difficult).

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks,

Rocky

problem.jpg

prep school.plan

Personally I always start with automatic roofs. This means you will need to build out your rooms first and set your room elevations in order to properly auto-build the roof. There is a funny valley/gable detail here and I imagine it has to do with varying room elevations

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Rocky - let us know if it's the construction of the roof you are having trouble with...or, just creating a simple plan view where you can work with the roof planes.  I don't think your post is clear...

 

Thanks.

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7 minutes ago, SNestor said:

Rocky - let us know if it's the construction of the roof you are having trouble with...or, just creating a simple plan view where you can work with the roof planes.  I don't think your post is clear...

 

Thanks.

I imagine both, I believe your video was relevant and most likely appreciated...for someone new to the software, layer and anno sets open up a world of possibility

 

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Thanks. 

Here is the model.

Problems. After hours of 8 hours where I set heights and CA changes the heights, I have the roof close but with planes not aligning well.

I wish could lock a plane in its entirety once positioned correctly, confident in the knowledge that doing things like using the connect roof planes tool won't mess it up.

I have set the pitch of all the planes at least 8 or 9 times because I cannot permanently lock them.

I am thinking when I go manual I should NEVER again use the connect planes tool because it changes too many of my numbers.

Could someone quickly fix the alignment of the planes for me?

All planes are 6/12. 

Thanks for whoever can help.

I believe part of my problem is in my plan view. Too may double lines. Cannot clearly see things well enough to do alignments. I only want to see a single outline for everything except the walls.

Rocky

get help.plan

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55 minutes ago, rockyshepheard said:

Thanks. 

Here is the model.

Problems. After hours of 8 hours where I set heights and CA changes the heights, I have the roof close but with planes not aligning well.

I wish could lock a plane in its entirety once positioned correctly, confident in the knowledge that doing things like using the connect roof planes tool won't mess it up.

I have set the pitch of all the planes at least 8 or 9 times because I cannot permanently lock them.

I am thinking when I go manual I should NEVER again use the connect planes tool because it changes too many of my numbers.

Could someone quickly fix the alignment of the planes for me?

All planes are 6/12. 

Thanks for whoever can help.

I believe part of my problem is in my plan view. Too may double lines. Cannot clearly see things well enough to do alignments. I only want to see a single outline for everything except the walls.

Rocky

get help.plan

 

Rocky...

I think you need to read the manual, watch the Chief Videos, get on YouTube and watch as many DSHall (Scott Hall) videos as you can...and learn the program.  Did you watch the video I posted?  The first thing you need to do is learn to control "LAYERS".  

 

If you learn how to use the software...that roof should only take about 10 minutes to complete.  We've all been where you are...at the starting line.  Education is the key to success.

 

I will look at your plan and possibly post a video later today....I think your attached plan can be useful in teaching others.  

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1 hour ago, rockyshepheard said:

 

In conceptual design we typically start from the roof down its true but unfortunately chief wants us to build our walls first.

This roof would be very simple to accomplish if you added the interior walls and defined the ceiling heights and ceiling structure in your room dbx's. Then the automatic roof tool would get you 90-100% of the way their with no frustrations.

 

Going the manual route, albeit more difficult can still be accomplished with a few tricks. First break your long ceiling plan into sections, that way the various ridge heights can be tabulated and copy pasted to adjoining ridges, taking out the guess work. (match ceiling plane tool can create problems as you've seen. Once you've established the ridge locations you can rebuild the long ceiling plane. 

You may want to start with drawing cad lines through your wall intersections so you have something true to snap your ceiling planes to.

I know that your roof baselines are too low or the ceiling planes or too low according to your room heights as chief as drawn in dashed lines where the roof plane cuts into your ceiling planes

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Have you worked through the Tutorial guide for X10 Rocky ? ...like Others i think you need to get the basics down 1st and then watch videos and just use the software , same way the rest of us have learned CA.

 

If your Roof Planes are joined properly you will get an automated ridgecap displayed...so that is a good visual indication for good joins, assuming you are displaying RidgeCaps ....

 

Sounds like you may also have Roof Overhangs,Roof Trim and Gutter Display on, (multiple Lines) turn them off in the ALDO too, like this....

 

image.thumb.png.dd5aa49b4a51534ae98bc43d3daa859b.png

 

 

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Thanks.

I do have a basic understanding layers and have watched scores of videos. I have the manual but I have never seen a methodology written out that indicates how to not have numbers change by subsequent edits. Is there a chapter I missed? I feel I need a sequential methodology rather than descriptions of menus and terminology.

I would like to set pitches once and forget. Then change the fascia height and forget that. Then finally set the ridge height...that plane is finished! Setting one should never change others without warning messages.

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Just increased the line weights so I can better understand what I'm looking at in the plane view. Helpful. But does a thicker line mask lines that I should be paying attention to?

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32 minutes ago, rockyshepheard said:

I would like to set pitches once and forget. Then change the fascia height and forget that. Then finally set the ridge height...that plane is finished!

 

you can't do that and not alter the pitch.....think about it.... the pitch and overhang dictate the fascia height ( and height above plate), now enter some random number for the ridge what would happen? , the pitch must change.....

 

depending on the house, you maybe better off with "Same height Eaves , than Same Roof height at exterior Walls is my guess.... ( same thing if all pitches are equal) seems to work well in this plan when set with 6/12 pitch ....not sure that is how it should look though?

 

Not sure you have the basic concepts of Roofs , the pitch doesn't change if you lock it when setting the Fascia or ridge heights , if you don't lock the Pitch it will pivot while altering one of those, unfortunately you cant lock the Pitch permanently but It should normally be the one locked in the Roof DBX when making changes otherwise you will end up with weird off-pitch roof slopes eg 6.23/12

 

Thicker lines shouldn't hurt but I don't work with line weights on anyway..... set the display per my pic above and it should clear up alot of un-needed lines...

 

M.

image.thumb.png.54f242d2223e7ffbe3720faf4b2df3cf.png

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38 minutes ago, rockyshepheard said:

Just increased the line weights so I can better understand what I'm looking at in the plane view. Helpful. But does a thicker line mask lines that I should be paying attention to?

Okay Rocky I fixed the right half of your roof, I will leave you to fix the left for learning purposes. 

There are a few things to note. In this screen shot:
1403367974_ROOFPROBLEM.thumb.JPG.dfe207001897f91a8c27511a3d9750fe.JPG


You need to set your current floor height according to what is listed in your CAD plans. Your Roof baselines should all correspond to the room height. Since we are doing this backward, see what the ceiling height is by default and subtract it from what the true ceiling height is. This should give you a dimensions such as 30" ...write it down. Next, go to the "build" menu at the top of the CA browser and go to drop down roof/roof plane(or simply hit "Q" on your keyboard). with build roof plane selected, hold your shift key and drag a marque around all roof planes. This will select only roof planes. You can hit ctrl+e to open up all of the roof plane's DBX's and raise the baseline heights by that dimension(30" or so)...remembering to keep the "pitch" designation locked. This will make it so that your roof planes dont intersect your ceiling planes(which creates a dashed line in your plan as well as some other potential problems)



Next are some key instructions to building roof planes manually.

Notice in the screen shot of pulled reference 45 degree CAD lines from all wall intersections. This makes it easy to snap roof planes to these cad lines. Assuming your roof has the same overhand at each intersection.

Your roof baselines are shown in green..I left a note....they should be aligned on your main wall layer. You were working in the all layers on layer...with all layers on, the layer marked "main wall layer only" will make it so that you cant see your exterior cladding layers. When drawing roof planes, they should(in most cases) be snapped to your exterior cladding layer...so "Walls,main layer only" needs to be left unchecked.

here is your plan file with half of the roof fixed:

219-01-10-T ROCKY SHEPHARD SCHOOL ROOF.plan

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Thanks!

I can see being able to lock both the pitch and ridge height at the same time without any geometric issues. Then decreasing the fascia height would simply move overhang out away from the wall. I wish I could see why that is problematic?

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7 minutes ago, rockyshepheard said:

Thanks!

I can see being able to lock both the pitch and ridge height at the same time without any geometric issues. Then decreasing the fascia height would simply move overhang out away from the wall. I wish I could see why that is problematic?

This would create variation where the roof plane sits on the wall...as builders, the wall heights should always stay the same, think of the roof baseline as the fulcrum-where the wall assembly rests..it is a constant and essentially locked, your ridge height and eave height adjust about the baseline. Many buildings have different eave overhang lengths, baselines need to remain constant.

 

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11 minutes ago, rockyshepheard said:

Thanks!

I can see being able to lock both the pitch and ridge height at the same time without any geometric issues. Then decreasing the fascia height would simply move overhang out away from the wall. I wish I could see why that is problematic?

The largest problem with your plan was that the baselines were drawn in incorrect locations.

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Renerabbitt

Thanks much for fixing the half. I will try to understand all that you've pointed out. How did you create the 45 degree reference lines? Did you use dimensions and delete them after the lines were created?

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10 minutes ago, rockyshepheard said:

Thanks!

I can see being able to lock both the pitch and ridge height at the same time without any geometric issues. Then decreasing the fascia height would simply move overhang out away from the wall. I wish I could see why that is problematic?

 

then change the overhang distance in the Wall DBX otherwise you are also altering the Height above Plate measurement.....and possibly the Baseline Location.

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Hmmm. I don't remeber ever drawing baselines. I simply place the plan on the outside surface of the wall and pull them inward.

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Renerabbitt

I noticed you broke up larger planes into smaller planes. I thought one pitch must be one plane. You must be saying that for a 40' x 20' plane, you could just as well break them into 4- 10'x20' planes?

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6 minutes ago, rockyshepheard said:

Hmmm. I don't remeber ever drawing baselines. I simply place the plan on the outside surface of the wall and pull them inward.

 

Baselines are drawn automatically for manual Roof planes.... and are always above the Framing Line in green usually (main layer wall line) but I don't normally need them displayed.

 

They will move if for example you force some settings , Same height Eaves with different pitched Roofs can cause this as the overhang will be different.

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3 minutes ago, rockyshepheard said:

Thanks for all the assistance!

Using the cad line tool I drew a 45 through the corner of the walls.

The point of breaking up the roof plane into several is only purposeful when you have several ridge heights. In this fashion we can find the ridge height and copy past to the adjoining ridge.

When you are complete with your roof assembly, simply expand one of the smaller roof planes to snap to all ridges and now you have one big roof plane again and everything is aligned...then delete the individual ones

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