Let's PBR

[Kbird1]

4 hours ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 Here s another example, I have adjusted the wood polished settings to obtain a level of sheen.

 

Specular - 0%

U Roughness - 15%

V Roughness - 15%

 

It should be noted that the polished look is significantly impacted on the sun intensity setting. In this scene the sun is set at 10,000 Lux. For a given polished setting, reducing the sun intensity reduces the polished effect, increasing the suns intensity increases the polished effect. Changing the sun intensity too much in either direction will destroy the polished look, the polished property settings would need to be adjusted to compensate for the sun intensities effect on this.

 

Looks good , nice work as usual...... but should the Sun really have this much effect Inside ? especially in a Basement...... I am finding 2000 lux is high enough in a lot of cases so at 100,000 it's a total white out. The OOB settings for PBR are not well done or Tested.... if the Lux settings are correct then the PBR Engine isn't interpreting them correctly , at 100,000 it's like I'm in the Sun not outside at Noon  

 

I see they are now recommending setting the Auto-lights to 100 in their Video too.... problem is none of the settings in the Video are Published anywhere Else....eg a KB Article, I had to work that out myself and use other Tips from you  eg .25 Exposure and 20 Brightness etc.

 

M.

[parkwest]

Now that we have a base from which to work from, I am having fun using the PBR.  With a little trial and error I can get decent renders.  Funny how we have to open 3 different dbx’s to get what we need.

[Kbird1]

11 minutes ago, parkwest said:

Now that we have a base from which to work from, I am having fun using the PBR.  With a little trial and error I can get decent renders.  Funny how we have to open 3 different dbx’s to get what we need.

 

I think She mentions going to 4 different places in the new PBR Video   pretty much SOP at CA...... a gazillion DBX's to go through ( and remember ) as usual....

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/watch/2426/physically-based-rendering-technique.html

 

[TheKitchenAbode]

2 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Looks good , nice work as usual...... but should the Sun really have this much effect Inside ? especially in a Basement...... I am finding 2000 lux is high enough in a lot of cases so at 100,000 it's a total white out. The OOB settings for PBR are not well done or Tested.... if the Lux settings are correct then the PBR Engine isn't interpreting them correctly , at 100,000 it's like I'm in the Sun not outside at Noon  

 

I see they are now recommending setting the Auto-lights to 100 in their Video too.... problem is none of the settings in the Video are Published anywhere Else....eg a KB Article, I had to work that out myself and use other Tips from you  eg .25 Exposure and 20 Brightness etc.

 

M.

 

Yeah ! the default sun intensity setting seems crazy, it completely blows out the background. Depending upon the scene and the backdrop I use between 100 lux up to 10,000 lux. I also adjust the Camera Exposure between 0.2 and 0.3, Brightness about +5 and Saturation +10.

 

In this one the sun intensity is 4,000LUX.

 

[parkwest]

4 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I think She mentions going to 4 different places in the new PBR Video   pretty much SOP at CA...... a gazillion DBX's to go through ( and remember ) as usual....

 

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/watch/2426/physically-based-rendering-technique.html

 

 

Yeah, I was counting off the top of my head while taking a break and thought there might be 4... but then thought that had to be too many. 

[parkwest]

3 minutes ago, solver said:

I guess I need to find those 4 places and start changing some things ...

 

 

Adjust your sun settings.  

 

I have had to use everything from toggle sun off to 20,000.

 

and adjust your lights to 100

[Kbird1]

On 2/20/2018 at 4:53 PM, solver said:

I guess I need to find those 4 places and start changing some things ...

 

Another Tip too ....Try changing the Default Full Camera to use PBR instead of Standard View 1st, so you don't need to switch Views

 ( which can be an issue if  Improve Light Quality is used in the PBR Technique Tab )

 

 

1. Change PBR technique to .25 Exposure

 

2. Change PBR technique to 20 Brightness

 

3. Change Default Sun to 2000 lux    ----------- may need to be 100 >10,000 depending on the scene lighting already. ( 500 for Exteriors)

 

4. Adjust Full Camera Automatic Lights to 100 ( 8 is the Default ) this one seems IMPORTANT

 

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/16912-lets-pbr/?do=findComment&comment=142683

 

[parkwest]

I did the first PBR from a plan I am currently working on...

 

The second PBR is from an old plan from X8 to see if it worked...

 

 

[glennw]

Does anyone know how to get obscure window/door glass in an external PBR view?

[Kbird1]

8 minutes ago, glennw said:

Does anyone know how to get obscure window/door glass in an external PBR view?

 

I don't think that is an Option for PBR ...not  1 I have seen anyway but changing the Glass to Glass-Grey works.... at least in my current Plan it tends to "white out"

[TheKitchenAbode]

Just an observation related to light intensity settings. When PBRing it appears that the intensity of lights are based on some relative relationship versus absolute values. In other words, the actual intensity in lumens does not seem to matter all that much but the relative difference between the lumens of one fixture to another does. For example, if there are two light fixtures and one is 1,000 lumens and the other is 500 lumens then the most important aspect is that the second fixture is half as intense as the first. As such, if the fixtures lumens are 100 lumens and 50 lumens or 10 lumens and 5 lumens the results will be similar as the relationship still remains. This also appears to be tied in some manner to the sun's intensity setting.

 

Just guessing at this time but I believe this is related to some form of auto adjustment feature that assumes that the highest lumen setting will represent the maximum luminosity value in the scene and all other luminosity values are determined relative to this maximum based on the lumen intensity relationships. If this is true, then one needs to be careful to not place a light that has an extremely high lumen value compared to the lumen value of other lights as it's effect on the relationship would effectively diminish the other lights contribution to the scene, if it is high enough the other lights could be reduced to the point where they have no effect at all.

[Kbird1]

Thanks for the Heads Up Graham, I appreciate the time you put in on this and RTing help.

 

M.

[TheKitchenAbode]

2 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Thanks for the Heads Up Graham, I appreciate the time you put in on this and RTing help.

 

M.

Thanks Mick. Here is an example, this PBR has the following light intensity settings:

 

Exterior Sun - 8.0 Lux

Recessed Lights - 15 Lumens

Under Cabinet Lights - 0.5 Lumens

Island Pendants - 15 Lumens

3D Area Lights - 4 Lumens

 

 

As can be seen, even with the sun intensity at only 8.0 Lux the light cast on the floor through the exterior door system is fine as are the under cabinet lights at only 0.5 Lumen. If the overall scene is a bit lacking in brightness then just boost the brightness in the PBR DBX. Also, the fact that I'm using a very low sun intensity results in amore realistic exterior light levels, the backdrop is not way over exposed and if I shoot the exterior it also shows a more correct level of lighting.

 

There may be no relevancy but when using lower settings I have not yet encountered the situation where the scene completely over exposes. Just wondering if that white-out situation might be related to a condition where one or more lights are just way too intense and the camera position is such that it is looking directly into this high intensity light source.

[Kbird1]

Since turning my default Sun Lux down to 2000 ( lower if exterior - 500? )  I have had way less occurrences of the WhiteOut but they still happen, even in Cameras that were saved and fine the Day before eg the Bathroom Plan I am working on currently, but I haven't figured out any commonality yet as to what causes it.

 

Nice Image , I see PBR has some weird light reflections in it like in my Bathroom Plan though , ie the light splotches on the beam that appear to be from the Island pendants.

 

Is the Island a Different "colour" than the main wall cabinets? it seems to be "glowing"  , I'm not sure if the lighting behind the Stools is "natural" , deliberate or a PBR issue though?

 

M.

[dskogg]

On 2/15/2018 at 1:50 PM, BrianBeck said:

Are any of you still able to produce the "white out" issue in the latest 20.1 update?

 

We were able to reproduce and resolve in the update at least one case of this occurring in the Beta based on a report sent in by a user.  

i got the white out the other day on 20.1

[Kbird1]

2 minutes ago, dskogg said:

i got the white out the other day on 20.1

 

I'm still getting them too , even in saved camera views.....

[TheKitchenAbode]

1 minute ago, Kbird1 said:

Since turn my default Sun Lux down to 2000 ( lower if exterior - 500? )  I have had way less occurrences of the WhiteOut but they still happen, even in Cameras that were saved and fine the Day before eg the Bathroom Plan I am working on currently, but I haven't figured out any commonality yet as to what causes it.

 

Nice Image , I see PBR has some weird light reflections in it like in my Bathroom Plan though , ie the light splotches on the beam that appear to be from the Island pendants.

 

Is the Island a Different "colour" than the main wall cabinets? it seems to be "glowing"  , I'm not sure if the lighting behind the Stools is "natural" , deliberate or a PBR issue though?

 

M.

 

The light splotches on the beam are from recessed light fixtures on that side. Yes, there is a bit of a lighting or material property issue on the island components, I'm checking into it.

[dskogg]

I just close camera now and open up again and it works, kind of annoying, doesn't seem to happen all the time.

 

I am quite happy with the pbr and have found great results once you set up lighting..here is a kitchen reno i am

doing as part of a whole house reno/addition. Its great to have many lights..i have 36 lights turned on for this view

 

 

[Kbird1]

13 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

The light splotches on the beam are from recessed light fixtures on that side. Yes, there is a bit of a lighting or material property issue on the island components, I'm checking into it.

 

Okay...my mistake   I can't see the recessed cans this side of the Beam and thought it was some reflected PBR Weirdness like I was getting the other day off the Floor Tile on the Toilet or Bath.

 

The "glow" isn't that obvious at 1st TBH , I was wondering if it was a PBR thing or not? I actually noticed it cos of the Shadow behind the BarStools....

 

 

[TheKitchenAbode]

Island color variances solved. Have had this happen before, for some reason even though the materials are all the same they PBR differently, some components will look brighter or duller than others. To correct this I just use the paint dropper, select the material and then reapply.

 

[Kbird1]

12 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Island color variances solved. Have had this happen before, for some reason even though the materials are all the same they PBR differently, some components will look brighter or duller than others. To correct this I just use the paint dropper, select the material and then reapply.

 

 

I'll have to remember that , thx, seems like it fixed the Shadow behind the Stools too.

 

I see David has reflection on his Island Top , I've not had them that "polished" yet ,  but I hope they figure out Standard Glass soon , as things like Wine Glasses and Cups etc can't be seen alot of the Time unless you change them to a "textured" glass of some kind , eg the included Brandy Sniffers and Tray disappeared , all I could see was the "Brass Details" and most Pendant light Shades disappear too..

 

M.

[parkwest]

At first I could only get interiors to work if I turned off the sun.

 

Now, thru my secret hit and miss strategy, I am able to get decent interiors with sun on or off.

 

 

[dskogg]

2 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I'll have to remember that , thx, seems like it fixed the Shadow behind the Stools too.

 

I see David has reflection on his Island Top , I've not had them that "polished" yet ,  but I hope they figure out Standard Glass soon , as things like Wine Glasses and Cups etc can't be seen alot of the Time unless you change them to a "textured" glass of some kind , eg the included Brandy Sniffers and Tray disappeared , all I could see was the "Brass Details".

 

M.

Yes the glass does seem to not show that well...my glass pendants glass you can hardly see..just the brass top and rod..

[parkwest]

The PBR's in post #99 were done with lots of interior lights.

 

Here is one with only the pendant lights and exterior lighting...

 

 

[TheKitchenAbode]

2 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I'll have to remember that , thx, seems like it fixed the Shadow behind the Stools too.

 

I see David has reflection on his Island Top , I've not had them that "polished" yet ,  but I hope they figure out Standard Glass soon , as things like Wine Glasses and Cups etc can't be seen alot of the Time unless you change them to a "textured" glass of some kind , eg the included Brandy Sniffers and Tray disappeared , all I could see was the "Brass Details".

 

M.

 

Reflections are still challenging, their visibility seems to be highly dependent upon the cameras angle and the reflective light source. Yes, glass is a big big problem, I usually change the material to General and play with the colour, add a slight texture and adjust the transparency and specular settings. This tends to work fairly well if the glass has some color in it such as the bluish vase on the floor in my kitchen. Clear glass, no matter what I do, just doesn't PBR properly.