Best Practices - notes

[johnny]

I'm working on a new template inside Chief to provide ConDocs more in line with a system I prefer.  I typically have notes/footnotes on a page, and then denote the item # on the plan (by label) that references the note/footnote - and then to the right of that particular note, have room for up to 3 referencing details in additional sheets or a detail packet.  I've attached an example.

 

What I am curious about, is there a way to replicate this in a more automated (formatting) way?   Michael and others gave me recommendations on using schedules, but adding the detail callouts on the right present an issue there.  Perhaps they have to be simply placed, but curious if there is a way i am not thinking of.

 

Thank you in advance for suggestions.

 

[DRAWZILLA]

hopefully in X10 they will have better detail callouts and automatic notes, so this would be possible . looks like it's done manually at this point.

[CJSpud]

I like what you are doing.  Suggestion:  Maybe a title or heading over the call outs on the right side.

 

I would really be nice if there was a generic schedule function in Chief, especially for different types of notes, where we could populate the various columns/rows with information per our own choosing, including use of call outs such as you are doing.

[Alaskan_Son]

On 8/19/2017 at 5:09 PM, johnny said:

I'm working on a new template inside Chief to provide ConDocs more in line with a system I prefer.  I typically have notes/footnotes on a page, and then denote the item # on the plan (by label) that references the note/footnote - and then to the right of that particular note, have room for up to 3 referencing details in additional sheets or a detail packet.  I've attached an example.

 

What I am curious about, is there a way to replicate this in a more automated (formatting) way?   Michael and others gave me recommendations on using schedules, but adding the detail callouts on the right present an issue there.  Perhaps they have to be simply placed, but curious if there is a way i am not thinking of.

 

Thank you in advance for suggestions.

 

 

That's a tough one.  Without being more intimately involved with your drawing process I wouldn't be able to tell you for certain and even if this does work it would likely require some custom macros and a notable amount of set up time, but here's what I'm thinking MIGHT work and I'm pretty sure you're already aware of MOST of this...

 

• Use a 3D object and its corresponding schedule to create the notes. 
• Assign a custom 2D block to that symbol and then use the 2D Symbol column in your schedule.  This 2D block can be the callout for your first column.  So far, these are all things I've gone over elsewhere before.  Enter a new idea based on your query...
• Instead of creating a 2D block with a single callout, create a "multi-layer" 2D block with several callouts.  Place each of those callouts on a different layer and set both the line style and text style to be controlled by layer.  Doing this will allow you to display a different callout depending on your layer set.  The callouts you do not want to display will get a text style with a text height of zero and the layer for that particular callout will get the invisible line style.  It will take a minute to set up the layers and layer sets but once you do...switch the layer set and your callout changes.  
• Send multiple iterations of your schedule to layout and line them up side by side.  In your example, the far right columns would be 2 more schedules coming from different layer sets. The layout box would just be resized so that only the callout portion of the schedule is visible. 

NOTE:  It may be helpful to look into adding a second (and maybe third, or fourth...) 2D Symbol column to the end of your schedule in order to help with the size difference of your columns.  The additional column(s) can be sized differently than the 1st in order to help deal with the difference in callout size.  I think if you decide to give my suggestion a college try that you'll probably see what I'm talking about.

 

Anyway, this method would certainly not be super easy to set up, but if you can get it to work, you could likely re-use it over and over again after that with very little future futzing. 

[Alaskan_Son]

Here's a very quick example...

Example.plan

Example.layout

 

NOTE:  The callouts on the right could be further automated using macros but that would take a bit more work.  I just wanted to show roughly how the idea would work.

 

 

 

[johnny]

Wow, checking this out Micheal - thanks for your effort here.

 

(added) you amaze me Michael - that this type of thing is exactly what I was after.  Im still trying to wrap my head around it a bit but very very cool.

[CARMELHILL]

I sent a message to Tech Support last month requesting a status update on whether the Software Engineers were going to give us a REAL Keynote database in version 10 instead of having to use the Plant Schedule work around that Michael and a few others worked out. I was told no. It's not on the horizon.

 

This is a real deficiency in Chief. It's a basic function that NEEDS to be addressed. They keep wasting time on eye candy marketing stuff. I personally don't get paid more if I provide a client with watercolor renderings or Ray-traced renders. In the end, it's basic drafting production that gets projects completed. The lack of a keynote tool is preventing me from using Chief on even the lightest commercial work.

 

I sent them links to these videos from Vectorworks that had basic light commercial tools 10 years ago. Yes, ten years ago.

 

Chief workaround on keynotes;

 

Vectorworks Keynotes manager

 

 

Ceiling grid tools:

 

Section marks needed:

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

A couple notes that I'd like to add here…

 

First of all, I appreciate the credit being thrown my way but it certainly wasn't all me. I think I've developed a few original ideas over the years and  there have also been some ideas I thought were pretty groundbreaking where I ended up discovering some random threads from several years back where someone had already gone over the idea.   Then there are ideas like this one that were a little of both.  I think it was Joe who originally came up with the plant schedule idea and then like so many other ideas,  one of us either rediscovered it or otherwise picked up on it and modified it or improved/expanded upon it.   Anyway, I just wanted to give credit where credit was due. At least Joe and Perry were using the note schedule idea before I ever started using it. 

 

Secondly, please don't misunderstand me. I think the workaround is a little bit clunky myself  and that we could badly use something much better.  I just feel like it's the best alternative we currently have. 

[CARMELHILL]

I understand what your talking about. I hate that with our clunky work around you can't preview the entire note in the Library Browser User Catalog. It only shows what fits in the Selection Panel, unless you widen your preview window to take up half your work space. Any notes that are similar can get confusing.

 

Today I have to start construction docs on a large hotel converted to a low income social services temporary housing with integrated food distribution cafeteria, social welfare offices, classrooms, and day care. It's going to be a royally PITA without a decent notes system. 

[johnny]

4 hours ago, CARMELHILL said:

Today I have to start construction docs on a large hotel converted to a low income social services temporary housing with integrated food distribution cafeteria, social welfare offices, classrooms, and day care. It's going to be a royally PITA without a decent notes system. 

 

Why would you even do that inside Chief?  Chief has some nice tools for residential that outweigh some of its serious issues, but a for a commercial project I view Chief a liability for several reasons.

 

I still use Vectorworks for my commercial projects.

[johnny]

21 hours ago, CARMELHILL said:

I sent a message to Tech Support last month requesting a status update on whether the Software Engineers were going to give us a REAL Keynote database in version 10 instead of having to use the Plant Schedule work around that Michael and a few others worked out. I was told no. It's not on the horizon.

 

This is a real deficiency in Chief. It's a basic function that NEEDS to be addressed. They keep wasting time on eye candy marketing stuff. I personally don't get paid more if I provide a client with watercolor renderings or Ray-traced renders. In the end, it's basic drafting production that gets projects completed. The lack of a keynote tool is preventing me from using Chief on even the lightest commercial work.

 

I sent them links to these videos from Vectorworks that had basic light commercial tools 10 years ago. Yes, ten years ago.

 

 

Ceiling grid tools

Section marks needed:

 

 

 

I agree, we really need links for this stuff.

 

JP

[CARMELHILL]

If I need to switch programs for commercial work then I'll just drop Chief. I can't be bothered with two programs. I'd make the switch the Revit or something.

 

College kids aren't taught anything except design. They don't spend enough time on code, construction docs, autocad/computers, etc..

 

When I hire a new kid I put them into a CAD seat and they watch Chief videos for 2 weeks. Then I give them basic asbuilt floor plans while they figure out Layer Sets and Annotation Sets. Then they watch my own in house videos I created that show how I want my drawings put together. Then I teach them how a house REALLY goes together and I try to include basic structure. They eventually incorporate some Code Analysis. I teach them how to use Strucalc10.0. Excel for basic FAR calculations, modifying our title sheet WFCM nailing schedules, and Light and Ventilation calculations. Then I show them Rescheck. We eventually mix in a little Photoshop which they usually already know.

I'd lose my mind if I had to teach them a second major CAD program on top of all this.

 

Maybe I should quit and get a municipal job doing plan review or inspections. Life would be a lot easier and I'd have a pension. But that's another thread topic.....

 

[MarkMc]

Don't know if it helps since I don't have as extensive needs as some and it is another work around but ...

 

I've taken to keeping some text in word processor docs and spreadsheets (depending on need which)

-that can be copied and pasted directly into Chief. Word processor pastes as Rich Text, spreadsheet as text- paste special gives you a choice.

IF you open a blank Rich Text box or Text Box you can drag and drop into it from an open sheet or doc. OIP fields also allow drag and drop in the DBX.

 

I have a little program called ClipMate that lets me store things in "collections" in a kind of looks like a file explorer.

It will copy-text boxes (can include arrow and have macro in it), callouts, schedules (which have a few quirks), cabinets (and likely other symbols), Arch blocks, Cad Blocks. All that is needed is to add Chief to the ClipMate application profile first.

Then any of those things can be pasted into Chief as needed (can use hold position as it saves the coordinates)

 

Text can be edited within Clipmate and manipulated in several ways often handy when grabbing from somewhere else prior to using. (been handy for Ruby snippets while I learn that)

 

The only problem with items that are not text that the "Title" needs to be edited in Clipmate to keep track of what they are. They are listed as DataObject and you can't really see what they are, the automatic title is "Other: date/time"

 

I hadn't used it in a while, then started trying it for use with the OIP as I sort out what is best for what I need. Also been playing with keeping some cabinets there to see if that works better than replace from library. Still not all sorted out for me. YMMV