Foundations on multiple levels, But one floor plan

[4hotshoez]

I suppose there is a third option that provides the most control and just about as much work. Manually draw the foundation in 2D. Or trace and manually draw in CAD the foundation plan, which I have done in order to make a foundation plan show the detail I needed with door cuts and ledges.

[Alaskan_Son]

Todd, once you figure out how to manipulate reference sets (and layer sets in general) for this purpose, you'll realize it's a snap. Only takes a few seconds. For the foundation on 3 or 4 levels you can combine reference sets with overlapping views sent to layout. Simply copy/paste in place your layout box and switch the floor being displayed and reference floor. Doing it this way you can essentially show all 4 floors with only 2 overlapping layout boxes.

[joey_martin]

Todd. I think I understand your issue, and I think I can help. With The multiple level issue, even though part of that level is the foundation for the floor above, it should still be shown on the correct level, and then handled with Anno Sets rather than reference sets. Just about all of my homes are on basements, and most have some sort of finished space down there. I handle everything with Anno Sets. 

[dshall]

......t should still be shown on the correct level, and then handled with Anno Sets rather than reference sets. .......

 

 

I am not sure what this means.  Anno sets and ref sets are two different animals,  something I am sure Joey knows.

 

Maybe he meant he handles this with Layer Sets rather that ref sets,  however,  again I think there are different reason to use.  I use both layer sets and ref sets to display what I need.

 

But to give Joey his due,  he does basements and I am sure he has done enough to know how to get what he needs.

[joey_martin]

I use Anno/Layer Sets. I never use reference sets for anything other than finding point loads from one floor to the other. I'm sure we use the method that works best in our situations, and in the way we we work. I simply don't use reference sets for anything. I prefer Anno/Layers.

 

In Todds situation, I would use Anno/Layer to keep everything where I want it, rather than referencing it from another floor. I would NOT recommend 2D though Todd. It can be done in 3D. 

[Alaskan_Son]

Joey,

How do you display items from other floors without using reference sets? Do you strictly overlap views in layout?

If so, for anyone unfamiliar with what we're talking about, one of the major benefits of using ref sets IMO is that you can see exactly what your view in layout will look like while you're working on it in plan view. By overlapping views in layout you can achieve the same end product but you can only see one of the views at a time while you're working on them...unless of course you have the reference display on, but then I don't see why I person wouldn't simply use that then.

[joey_martin]

How do you display items from other floors without using reference sets? Do you strictly overlap views in layout? 

 

I don't understand that question. If something is on the second floor, why would I want to see it on the first floor?

[DRAWZILLA]

So Perry, How would you show a foundation plan if the garage is on the main level and it has a short stem wall (48" in Michigan). Then there is a walk out basement level below the main floor with its foundation below, which means the foundation of the garage and the foundation of the basement would be on separate levels. How would you show or build them on the same plan?

I'm not sure what your asking, got any pic's

[joey_martin]

This Todd?

 

Pic 1= Main Level (W/ Garage)

Pic 2 = Basement Level (W/ Walkout)

Pic 3 = Foundation Plan

 

All the same file, all completed with Anno/Layer sets.

[Alaskan_Son]

I don't understand that question. If something is on the second floor, why would I want to see it on the first floor?

The topic of this thread is one very good example. As Todd said, there are situations where a house on a sloping lot could pretty easily have a single foundation that spans 3 or 4 floors. In that situation it could be very impractical if not impossible to draw it all on one floor but a person would probably want to show the entire foundation in a single plan view.

[joey_martin]

In that case Michael, I wouldn't want my "foundation plan" to be all on one page. In my opinion, thats not correct construction document management. I want all the walls on each level shown on that level. I want the builder/framer to know that there are differing wall type on each level, and how the connect/interact with each other. If that means there are a few more pages in the plan set, so be it....but for me, a building level is a building level, and should be drafting accordingly. I think at times we look for too many tricks, when all along drafting and planning standards established long before us still work.

[Alaskan_Son]

In that case Michael, I wouldn't want my "foundation plan" to be all on one page. In my opinion, thats not correct construction document management. I want all the walls on each level shown on that level. I want the builder/framer to know that there are differing wall type on each level, and how the connect/interact with each other. If that means there are a few more pages in the plan set, so be it....but for me, a building level is a building level, and should be drafting accordingly. I think at times we look for too many tricks, when all along drafting and planning standards established long before us still work.

That makes sense. We'll just have to agree to disagree though. IMO having a foundation drawn up on multiple levels (at least in a good handful of situations) is just asking for problems. A lot of guys don't comprehend things that way. And if the foundation is a single pour as it often times would be in those situations, it makes perfect sense to me to have it all on a single sheet...at least one overview anyway.

To each his own though. There are MANY other reasons to use reference sets though. Again, just comes down to your drawing style though.

[DRAWZILLA]

I don't understand that question. If something is on the second floor, why would I want to see it on the first floor?

for one, 2nd floor overhangs shown on the 1st floor. Also 1st floor roofs and exterior walls seen on the 2nd floor. Reference sets are the only and fastest way to go. I use them on just about every plan sent to the layout.

[joey_martin]

I handle those situations with CAD boxes...to each his own.

[dshall]

for one, 2nd floor overhangs shown on the 1st floor. Also 1st floor roofs and exterior walls seen on the 2nd floor. Reference sets are the only and fastest way to go. I use them on just about every plan sent to the layout.

 

 

Uh,  yeah....  it is amazing how much more our plans need to be details compared to 20 years ago.  Yes you must show second floor overhangs on your first floor for no other reason to show that are the required distance from the property line.

 

I have a feeling the folks in Indiana do not need to provide as much detail as the  nit wits in California need to provide.  And I  include Perry and myself in the nit  wit category.  

 

Perry,  it never ends does it?  There is always something new that we must provide...........  not only do we have to provide it,  but we have to figure out the best way to present it so we do not get a comment questioning  how we should of provided whatever we should of provided in the first place because somebody needs to show how smart they are in regards to what they know and blah blah blah.......

 

Back to the topic,   I am like Perry,  I use Ref Sets for every set of plans...  PERIOD.

[joey_martin]

A lot of guys don't comprehend things that way.

 

 Then during contractor selection we would weed those guys out.

[joey_martin]

I need to show those cantilever areas as well, there is even a line item in my plan check QC that reminds me to make sure I have those areas noted and dimensioned. I just prefer to click on the reference button and snap a quick CAD line to the area and turn the reference off. My plans are pretty detailed compared to many doing things around here, we just go about it in a different way.

[DRAWZILLA]

I think Scott is talking about the city requirements. We have to show that stuff. Reference sets is one of the greatest time savers of all time.

an old 2 page plan is now 20 to 25 pages now. Glad Chief has reference sets or I might go elsewhere. No cad lines for me.

[dshall]

In that case Michael, I wouldn't want my "foundation plan" to be all on one page. In my opinion, thats not correct construction document management. I want all the walls on each level shown on that level. ......

 

 

Perfect,  so you have a  split level,  first level at 0.0,  half level at 4.5',  next level at 9.0'......  where does the 4.5' level go?  On the bottom floor or the upper floor.  I understand if the project is a box on a box,  but how to handle the variables?   This ties into Michaels question about what if the project is a single pour.....  honestly,  I do not have the perfect answer,  I deal with it on a case by case basis,  the point being, there are many unique configurations that I need to deal with.

 

A rhetorical question,  you  do not need to answer......

[dshall]

......an old 2 page plan is now 20 to 25 pages now.....

 

 

 

That is so true.... I just got a set of plans for a project,  it is about 4 pages long,  we are going to do a second floor addition,  when all is said and done,  I will probably have about 20 pages for this project.

[joey_martin]

That is a good question, and one in which I would create a reference set so that the 4.5' level has it's own page...but I think we are comparing apples to oranges a little. Around here, and up North a couple hours in Michigan, we don't do single pour stuff. It's Footing one day, forms in a couple days, foundation pour in a couple more days.....

[Alaskan_Son]

That is a good question, and one in which I would create a reference set so that the 4.5' level has it's own page...but I think we are comparing apples to oranges a little. Around here, and up North a couple hours in Michigan, we don't do single pour stuff. It's Footing one day, forms in a couple days, foundation pour in a couple more days.....

We do the same thing. When I said single pour I really just meant that the foundation was all one single unit as in the footings are all formed up and poured as one piece and same with the walls.

[Alaskan_Son]

Then during contractor selection we would weed those guys out.

I guess there's 2 directions a person could go.

1. Draw it the way it makes sense to you and work only with people who think the same way.

OR

2. Draw for your audience.

I'm personally in favor of the latter. I've found it to be a pretty universal truth that people have their strengths and weaknesses. Adapting to compensate for a weakness (ability to mentally combine multiple foundation drawings into one in this case) to take full advantage of a persons strengths can pay off handsomely.

I run into it all the time. Subs that are extremely talented at what they do but they may be very poor at math, or very poor at reading plans, or whatever. You could easily be "weeding out" so fine craftsmen just because they don't think like you do.

I'm not trying to boast here, just trying to make a point, but I'm a pretty smart guy...typically at or near the top of my class with most things I have ever done, amongst the highest scoring with any tests I take, I'm very good at envisioning things and I have a good eye for detail (we typically get plans through permitting on the first try and I ace most my inspections...both of which are fairly unusual around here). I can understand and work with a foundation plan drawn up on multiple pages but it's not easy for me. It just makes a lot more sense being able to see it as one piece if reasonably possible and I really see now downside to doing it that way.

Just my thoughts.

[4hotshoez]

This Todd?

 

Pic 1= Main Level (W/ Garage)

Pic 2 = Basement Level (W/ Walkout)

Pic 3 = Foundation Plan

 

All the same file, all completed with Anno/Layer sets.

Yes, just as you have shown. I need to do exactly that in terms of results. I hate to ask how since so much advice has be given, but it is not so clear to my Midwestern mind.

 

The topic of this thread is one very good example. As Todd said, there are situations where a house on a sloping lot could pretty easily have a single foundation that spans 3 or 4 floors. In that situation it could be very impractical if not impossible to draw it all on one floor but a person would probably want to show the entire foundation in a single plan view.

And this is good too. I would want the foundation all on one sheet and I believe it can be managed in a single plan, but it would require a system and details.

 

In that case Michael, I wouldn't want my "foundation plan" to be all on one page. In my opinion, thats not correct construction document management. I want all the walls on each level shown on that level. I want the builder/framer to know that there are differing wall type on each level, and how the connect/interact with each other. If that means there are a few more pages in the plan set, so be it....but for me, a building level is a building level, and should be drafting accordingly. I think at times we look for too many tricks, when all along drafting and planning standards established long before us still work.

We could use an improved system that would allow us to show what we want. In any case, the concrete guys don't want multiple pages. Just one. I have seen these contractors do a physical cut and paste in order to make a single sheet. It is just the way they choose to see it.

[DRAWZILLA]

Larry

My computer is smarter than I, but then again I can make babies.