Top cord bearing roof truss

[MN_JohnH]

I am wondering how to build a roof truss that bears on the top cord like this picture and then I would need to get the wall to frame up to that bearing point.
I have a plan here where I was able to change the shape of the truss and I made the walls to balloon through ceiling and now they go all the way to the upper truss cord and don't stop at the bearing point I created in the trusses with the truss envelope. Also, how can I get the framing  to use my trusses instead of making it's own trusses in addition to mine?

Raised bearing roof truss problem.plan

Edited Friday at 08:35 PM by MN_JohnH
Added information

[GeneDavis]

You can get the truss to generate by manually placing the roof and ceiling planes, then draw one truss, edit it to get what you want, then lock it.  Frame the bearing walls and edit their heights.

 

I'd tell you how to it all with settings and clicks and drags, but I don't know how.

[Doug_N]

This is done by building ceiling planes that are parallel to the roof surface and then generating roof trusses.

 

[MN_JohnH]

Thanks for the responses. I guess I didn’t make it clear that I know how to draw the trusses. The problem I’m having is controlling where the walls frame to the truss.

Basically, I can’t find any setting that lets me define the top of wall framing at a specific point on the truss.

Yes, I can raise the roof and get the look I want, but when I reframe the walls I still end up with the same problem.

For example, what if I want the wall to frame to the bottom chord of the truss? On the lower side I can accomplish that by setting the room ceiling height and not balloon framing through. But then the higher side frames to that same level. If I set the walls to balloon through, then the framing runs all the way to the top chord instead.

What I need is a way to control the top plate height / bearing point of the wall framing relative to the truss.

Right now, when the wall frames all the way to the top cord, the framing gets crazy because it tries to frame around all the truss members.

My second problem is that once I manually draw and place my trusses, then build the roof framing, Chief creates another complete set of trusses automatically. So now I have duplicate trusses plus even more crazy wall framing, and it ignores the bearing points I established in my custom trusses.

So I can build and customize the trusses fine (I think), including locking the envelope with bearing points, but I can’t get the walls to frame to those bearing points correctly.

Again, my sample plan is attached.

 

Raised bearing roof truss problem.plan

[MN_JohnH]

35 minutes ago, robdyck said:

Hi John, here's a couple of quick tips.

1. Turn off the framing for the ceiling plane. We'll just use the trusses generated by the roof.
2. For the wall framing, you'll need to manually edit the wall framing. Take note of the elevation of the roof truss bearing and you can use that information to accurately edit the top plate height.  Before editing the wall framing, ,'d suggest resetting the structure to 'Automatic' and rebuilding the wall framing. That will simplify the wall framing so that all you need to do is raise the plates, and stretch the studs.

If I frame the roof and not the ceiling, I still get all the extra trusses. I am not sure what we are trying to accomplish there. Or maybe I am misunderstanding.

All you need to do is  raise the plates, and stretch the studs? That's a lot.
And if I move a window or something and need to re frame the wall I will have to do it all over again?
Also, what if I wanted to have some windows in that upper wall area above the normal ceiling height? I would have to frame that all by piece?

[GeneDavis]

Is there a reason why you want to pocket the wall frame tops up into the truss envelope?  Bring the wall tops up to the bottom chord, and use Simpson VPA2 clips.  Your sheetrock guys will thank you, because there will be nailing for the tops of the boards.

[MN_JohnH]

1 hour ago, GeneDavis said:

Is there a reason why you want to pocket the wall frame tops up into the truss envelope?  Bring the wall tops up to the bottom chord, and use Simpson VPA2 clips.  Your sheetrock guys will thank you, because there will be nailing for the tops of the boards.

I want my windows to be higher and if I make it bearing higher up I can integrate a header up into the trusses.

[GeneDavis]

Have you done as suggested by me and others?  Edit the truss to have bearing pockets, edit the walls to rise up into the bearings?  It's just basic Chief Architect.  Do it and show us results.

 

My work is all in a locale with a gsl of 100 psf, and I have never met a header-under-truss situation I could not solve.  Here's a pic of one going to con docs right now.  You can see how the truss chord is interrupted so that a pocket is formed so the bearing is accommodated.

 

The section view is picking up the 2x4-framed close-off panels we are doing in every 24" truss bay.  You can see the top and bottom members as crossboxes in the view.  The job is getting all its walls panelized in the shop sistered alongside the truss plant, and these are part of that package.

 

I never show my truss guy anything other than the envelope required for a truss.  This job has one exception, a gable end truss for which I want the 2x3 upright chords done to a specified layout.  You may not know this, but the 2D truss detail views you have in Chief, showing all the chords and webbing, those are very editable and you can arrange any bearing pockets, and web arrays you want using Chief CAD.

 

[GeneDavis]

Edited truss envelope, chords, bearing, and web.  Edited wall framing.

[MN_JohnH]

10 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

Edited truss envelope, chords, bearing, and web.  Edited wall framing.

This is what I want to do but my question is, how do you set the top of that plate so that when you reframe that wall it frames to that level again? I know how to build and manipulate the trusses, I know how to manually raise the top plate and stretch my studs. I am thinking that is what you did here. But my hope is that there is a way to set the top height of the wall so that if I change a window in that wall or anything like that and want to reframe the wall, I don't have to manually adjust the top plate and stretch the studs every time.

[GeneDavis]

Short answer:  you don't.

 

Chief has no settings you can do in dialogs that raises plates above ceiling heights.  Chief generates wall framing based on room def specs, so clicking on a wall and framing it places the top plate at the ceiling height specified.  As I said upthread, you need to edit the framing to raise the plates where wanted, and extend the framing up to the raised plates.

 

Those edits don't "stick" if you doodle openings in the wall.

 

I threw out the test file and can't play with it, but I just thought you might succeed this way.  It'll do it for a simple shed building with roof shape like you showed in your upthread image of the truss with bearing pockets.   Use CAD to figure the plate heights you want, both low and high sides, and do room division so that all rooms on the low side have ceiling heights for that low side, and likewise across the building for the high side.  Fram those walls and you might find they are poked up into the truss envelope where you want them.  Now all you have to do is edit the truss.  Show us your results.

[MN_JohnH]

3 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

Short answer:  you don't.

 

Chief has no settings you can do in dialogs that raises plates above ceiling heights.  Chief generates wall framing based on room def specs, so clicking on a wall and framing it places the top plate at the ceiling height specified.  As I said upthread, you need to edit the framing to raise the plates where wanted, and extend the framing up to the raised plates.

 

Those edits don't "stick" if you doodle openings in the wall.

 

I threw out the test file and can't play with it, but I just thought you might succeed this way.  It'll do it for a simple shed building with roof shape like you showed in your upthread image of the truss with bearing pockets.   Use CAD to figure the plate heights you want, both low and high sides, and do room division so that all rooms on the low side have ceiling heights for that low side, and likewise across the building for the high side.  Fram those walls and you might find they are poked up into the truss envelope where you want them.  Now all you have to do is edit the truss.  Show us your results.

You answered my question there, it's not an option. That's all I was really asking. 
I did try the splitting of the room and having a higher ceiling level. that works in a section view but the framing goes around the trusses even though I have the pockets in the trusses for them.

It's not a big deal, I can deal with this in a couple CAD details, but I hear a lot of guys saying if you draw it the way it will be built the CAD details are easy so I figured I would give it a try.
I have a screen shot of the framing around the trusses.

The other question I had as to why Chief wants to draw it's own trusses over my customized trusses when i frame the roof still goes unanswered. 
But I will muddle along as always.

Thanks for your patience.

[GeneDavis]

Would you be satisfied if your section looked like mine, upthread?  No CAD detail needed.  Your wallframe elevations will be exactly how they should be built, and your trusses will have the bearing pockets exactly to your specs.

 

I did it in Chief.  You should too if that is what you're after and needing.  Lots of us do workarounds due to the software's limits.

[Joe_Carrick]

Do a library search for Engineered floor Joists & Trusses.

There's a couple of Steel Web Trusses and a Wood Web Floor Truss that are top chord bearing.

 

They're just CAD Blocks but they can be superimposed on cross sections.

Edited yesterday at 03:12 AM by Joe_Carrick

[MN_JohnH]

11 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

Would you be satisfied if your section looked like mine, upthread?  No CAD detail needed.  Your wallframe elevations will be exactly how they should be built, and your trusses will have the bearing pockets exactly to your specs.

 

I did it in Chief.  You should too if that is what you're after and needing.  Lots of us do workarounds due to the software's limits.

Yes, I will just work it like this. I will build the trusses and then, when I am reasonably sure that my wall is done, I will edit it so that is it right in the cross section and any 3d framing view.
(and hope that I don't accidentally reframe all or that wall again).  I just was hoping there was an easier way. Sorry for dragging everyone down this rabbit hole. I still don't know why Chief wants to use it's own trusses after I have put mine in but I can work around that too.
Thanks!

[GeneDavis]

@MN_JohnH, you said, "I still don't know why Chief wants to use it's own trusses after I have put mine in but I can work around that too."

 

Please, for our info, tell us how you "put mine in" and how Chief "wants to use its own."

 

Chief lets you autoframe with trusses, and you can manually draw trusses the same way you can draw rafters and floor joists.  It's "own trusses" are graphic representation of engineered wood trusses with top and bottom chords done per your spec inputs, but the webbing members are all from Chief's hallucinations.  Actually, not.  It places webbing based on how you have set the specs for max distance between for top and bottom chords.  Play with the defaults for trusses and you'll learn how it all works.

 

But never every think that Chief can or will do what your truss plant's engineer does with her roof build software.  It is all just a reasonable "look" that you get from Chief.  The only truss details (the elevations that call out all members, spacings, bearings, reactions, webbings) that count are the ones from the component supplier.

 

I'm pretty anal about framing, having framed houses myself, trusses and stick, and being a structural engineer.  I want my con docs to have the framing all detailed exactly how I expect it to be built.  For a trussed job, I want my roof framing plan to have the exact layout the truss engineer will produce, so I always go back and forth as needed with someone from that desk at a components plant.  Girders, hip sets, mono jacks, lay-ons, tray ceilings, overframes, everything goes in the right places, all dimensioned.  But as for how any of the trusses are webbed or plated, I don't care, and nobody cares how my drawings look regarding that part of a job.  

[MN_JohnH]

7 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

@MN_JohnH, you said, "I still don't know why Chief wants to use it's own trusses after I have put mine in but I can work around that too."

 

Please, for our info, tell us how you "put mine in" and how Chief "wants to use its own."

 

Chief lets you autoframe with trusses, and you can manually draw trusses the same way you can draw rafters and floor joists.  It's "own trusses" are graphic representation of engineered wood trusses with top and bottom chords done per your spec inputs, but the webbing members are all from Chief's hallucinations.  Actually, not.  It places webbing based on how you have set the specs for max distance between for top and bottom chords.  Play with the defaults for trusses and you'll learn how it all works.

 

But never every think that Chief can or will do what your truss plant's engineer does with her roof build software.  It is all just a reasonable "look" that you get from Chief.  The only truss details (the elevations that call out all members, spacings, bearings, reactions, webbings) that count are the ones from the component supplier.

 

I'm pretty anal about framing, having framed houses myself, trusses and stick, and being a structural engineer.  I want my con docs to have the framing all detailed exactly how I expect it to be built.  For a trussed job, I want my roof framing plan to have the exact layout the truss engineer will produce, so I always go back and forth as needed with someone from that desk at a components plant.  Girders, hip sets, mono jacks, lay-ons, tray ceilings, overframes, everything goes in the right places, all dimensioned.  But as for how any of the trusses are webbed or plated, I don't care, and nobody cares how my drawings look regarding that part of a job.  

If I have my plan open and I build a truss and space it 24" from the outside framing of an end wall and then drag copy the trusses across and create the end trusses, everything is all set, so then I use automatic framing build the framing for the roof so that I can get my lookouts and subfascia in place. When I do that, Chief put in it's own trusses and use those for the lookout framing and ignore the trusses I have put there. I have the plan attached again and you can see it built a second set of trusses and ignore mine. I am pretty sure I have done this in the past without this problem and I just watched a video the other day where he did it with success but it's not working for me.

I agree with you on wanting things to be on the plan as they will be in real construction. Ultimately my truss guy will engineer the actual trusses but I like to be able to show him what I am thinking and show my guys what we are doing. I just want my drawings to be as accurate as possible, (that's why we are doing this, right?).

The attached plan is not my actual project, that is just a sample building to show what I am having trouble with. The actual project is far to complex.

Thanks,

Raised bearing roof truss problem.plan