Elevation frustration -------- HELP!

[Larry_Sweeney]

I don't know why trying to build/modify elevations have to be so difficult in CA. I've spent the better part of a day trying to modify an elevation and I'm at my wits end. I've finally got most of the original elevation close to where I now want it, but my two retaining walls do not want to work correctly. In attachment #1 the highlighted area is an elevation region. the wall is marked as a foundation/retaining wall. My elevation data lines protrude into the retaining wall (as shown), but does not cross into the elevation region. In attachment #1B shows what I'm getting. The red line on the retaining wall is where I would like my ground line to run.  Attachments #2 & #2B shows the other retaining wall with the same problem. I've tried every combination I can think of using terrain breaks, elevation regions, adjusting the elevation data line back from my walls and also carried them through the retaining wall onto my elevation region. I've gone through training videos, knowledge base and YouTube. I've seen many things on retaining walls and using them, but they all discuss retaining walls where the elevation lines are running parallel to the wall. I didn't find one that talked about retaining walls with the elevation lines are running perpendicular into the wall. I don't know what else to try. What am I missing? As always, any and all advice is always much appreciated. I'm adding the Dropbox link for this file I'm working on, but it's a very large file (why?---I don't know). It's a work in progress. Thank you

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hjsocftliyk88va421vzf/PROPOSAL-20-01292025.plan?rlkey=l0lbo0092blin3285otbjt0er&dl=0

[SHCanada2]

I share your frustration as I have had similar results...hopefully someone has the answer

[TeaTime]

1. get those elevation lines outta that wall!!  you need to treat retaining walls the same as other elevation lines, they should never cross or touch.
2. open the Terrain Spec, you'll see your terrain smoothing is set to Linear. retaining walls don't work with Linear smoothing. Set it to Low and they'll work but you'll get a message asking if you want to use Linear because you have "too many" elevation points. (This is why you're using Linear, it asked, you said yes.)

3. remove some of the elevation lines to reduce the number of points. That will let it stay on Low smoothing, and it wont take so long. Might even decrease the plan file size.

^ that wall in the revision cloud is not (and can't be) a Retaining Wall, put a Terrain Break in that wall to get the terrain to behave there.

 

I deleted about half those lines and trimmed it down to just the data within the perimeter, it builds quickly with Low smoothing, contours look about the same but with half the data:

 vs 

[robdyck]

Keep in mind that there are times when a Retaining Wall is a bit annoying in the way it connects to other walls and the way it affects the terrain elevation. When, and only when this is a nuisance, I switch to a terrain break and then I will model the retaining wall using slabs, solids, molding or whatever is the most suitable, like a concrete lock block from Chief's Library.

 

A terrain retaining wall transitions the elevation data within the width of the wall. A terrain break can be set to transition much wider (120" is default) or much narrower so you can 'bury' this transition within other objects.

 

Regardless of which tool you use, the terrain elevation data should not cross over or extend into this transitional boundary. As a general rule of thumb, I like to keep elevation data (points or lines) 1" away from my retaining wall or from the terrain break transition boundary.

[robdyck]

In this area, you have overlapping conflicting terrain elevation data; an elevation line and an elevation region. Delete the elevation line, and alter the region so it does not intersect the retaining wall. This statement is not referring to the elevation lines which also need to be cut back from the ret. wall.

[robdyck]

I'd also suggest removing and cropping almost all terrain lines beyond the terrain perimeter.

 

[robdyck]

At the driveway, you have 2 elevation regions / lines either overlapping or touching. I'd suggest pulling back the elevation line for the asphalt driveway away from the region of the concrete.

Conflicting elevation data is kinda like having Jell-O touching your potatoes and gravy!

[Larry_Sweeney]

TeaTime & Robert.......................Thank you for your time and knowledge. I cleaned up my terrain as well as I could with the advice you gave me. I also sent my problem into support (since I'm paying for SSA) to see what they would also recommend. Basically, without getting into a lot of detail, they gave me the same advice. With all that said, my results improved, but it still wasn't that great. I pulled the elevation lines back to different distances from the retaining wall, made sure my elevation region was not touching the retaining wall and also made sure I had no overlapping elevation lines.   At this point I didn't know rather to reach for the bourbon or settle for another cup of coffee--------------Luck was with me; I got another coffee and retackled my dilemma. I finally got it looking the way I wanted it, but not exactly by what was suggested. Please, don't take this the wrong way, I really do appreciate your time and advice. It did help me a lot. What I ended up doing was not using the "Terrain Break" or a "Retaining wall. It may not have been accomplished "by the book" but the results are great. I left the wall as a foundation wall only. Ran the "Elevation Region" up to the wall on one side and elevation lines up to (and touching) the wall on the other side. I also had to add many more elevation lines [sorry TeaTime). I did clean up and reduced elevation lines elsewhere in the plan though. In the attachments of the plan views, I show the walls, elevation region (highlighted) and the elevation line data. The rendering attachments so the outcome for both wall. I think the only options I've read or was told about was either using a "Retaining wall" or "Terrain break" to accomplish my problem. If I'm wrong (and I probably am) that's my bad. I thought I should mentioned this outcome just in case someone else might search for a thread on this subject someday. Once again, thanks for your time and advice. Have a great day!