How is the label offset supposed to work for doors?

[GeneDavis]

I saw the post in Suggestions that revived the ask for door label positions that are right for innies and outies whatever that means.

 

In this pic you see two interior doors D07 and D08 that I placed after going into the doors default and setting the label offset at plus 12" in y direction.  The help manual implies the x and y axes are those of the symbol.  Door D07 has a left hand swing and D08 is right hand.  I placed both using the interior door tool and edited neither for swing.  The labels placed when I placed the doors.

 

 

Can someone explain the logic for me of how Chief placed the labels?

 

A word, it's rather a question, about innies and outies.  In my former life in the door biz, and having bought and installed lots of doors, exterior hinged doors are specified by both swing (in or out) and hinge hand (R or L).  Interior doors are typically specified only as R or L.  Latching hardware ("locks") for doors is a whole separate topic and is not discussed here in my post.  So, for interior doors, what's an innie?  Does in or out for an interior door mean the side the lock is on if the door is lockable?  

[DBCooper]

As far as I can tell, +Y is always on the right side of the wall going from start to end.  Doesn't matter which way the door swings or whether it is an interior or exterior wall.  +X is along the wall in the same direction as the wall.  Chief uses the same rule for window and wall labels.  This is another reason that you should make sure your start and end indicators are turned on in your preferences (under "edit").

 

[GeneDavis]

Thanks, @DBCooper.  Take a look at this snip from the help manual.  I don't get it for doors.

[GeneDavis]

So I drew a rectangular house exterior and four interior walls, two vertically, two horizontally.  The walls drawn vertically, one drawn from top down, one from bottom up.  Same for the horizontal walls, one drawn L to R, the other R to L.

 

And the offset for the interior door labels, one door placed in each of the four walls, was set in the default to be plus 12".

 

The labels all are placed on the right side of the wall.  Imagine you are the cursor being placed and dragged to make a wall.  You are looking forward during the drag move.  Right side of wall is to your right.

 

So that info in the help files about label placement should be clarified.  The "object" spoken of for label placement is not the door (or window or slider or passthrough, etc.) but the wall itself, and the right side of a wall is set when it is drawn, click-drag-release.  And that label, when placed, stays there if the door is edited for swing or side or both.

 

And the easiest way, this for interior doors only that go into interior walls with same finish layers both sides, the easiest way to flip the label R to L is to select not the door, but the wall, and then click the wall reverse layers button.

[Joe_Carrick]

Gene,

 

I agree that is the way it works - but I it should work according to the swing direction (inside/outside).  My preference would be to the actual swing side but +/- could suffice.

[GeneDavis]

Thanks for the feedback, Joe.  Your preference for label on swing side made the lightbulb click ON in my head.  I now understand Alan's @Gawdziraterm innies and outies terms.  Innie is label inside the swing arc (your term: to the actual swing side) and outie is the side opposite swing.

 

Let's hope we get a change in X17 to make this a setting in defaults so no editing is needed to place offset labels.

 

[ValleyGuy]

22 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

Thanks, @DBCooper.  Take a look at this snip from the help manual.  I don't get it for doors.

I'm guessing that regardless of which direction one would draw a wall, CA has decided to give a 'face' to one side. My theory is that the edit handle side is this 'face'. 

I just use that old saying ...' most everything we need to know, we learned by the age of 5...'    "get behind the line" kinda stuck with me.   If you pretend to be standing behind the edit handle, anything going away from you will be positive, and anything coming back toward you will be negative.  It helps me remember the label, single sided hardware (dummy handles), and proper showing / swing designation in door schedules.  So far old Mrs. Brown from pre-school hasn't let me down.

 

 

[ValleyGuy]

7 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

 

And the easiest way, this for interior doors only that go into interior walls with same finish layers both sides, the easiest way to flip the label R to L is to select not the door, but the wall, and then click the wall reverse layers button.

That's what I do, break the wall and reverse if more than one door resides on a single wall and they swing from opposite sides, keeping the edit handle always on the side pushing the door away from my little imaginary footprints. This then lines up my schedule with how I used to sell doors, RH or LH hinged interior doors. In my part of the world, door manufacturers sell interior doors by the hinged side pushing the door away from you if you were standing inside the jamb.