Designers_Ink Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 For the past couple of weeks, Chief has been crashed on my computer when I attempt to update an elevation view. I was also seeing an issue where Chief crashed when I tried to edit the model in a 3D camera view. Sometimes Chief just expectedly closes and somethings I get the Blue Screen of Death with various error messages. I am running a new computer that is about six weeks old with all updated drivers. I have tested each component with the help of my computer manufacturer (Digital Storm) and NVIDIA tech support with no issues found in the hardware. The computer is not overclocked, and I have done a complete re-install of Windows 11 Pro and all my software. My BIOS is set to all of the default settings, and my NVIDIA RTX 4090 is set to all of the default settings. The files work fine on my other computer, so I don't think the .plan or .layout files are corrupted. I thought I was alone in this, but I found a post today on a Chief Facebook site where someone else was experiencing the same issue. I have been working with Chief Tech Support for awhile now, and they were going through my logs to attempt to find the source of the problem. I am just curious if anyone else is having this issue in hopes of finding others so we can compare notes to try to troubleshoot the problem more easily. If you are having a similar issue, I would encourage you to contact Chief Tech Support as well. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBCooper Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 In Chief world, elevation views are actually 3D views. The only reason that matters is that I would guess that you have problems in all of your other camera views and not just elevation views. I would also guess that the problem is with the video card, or more likely, the drivers. If using the latest driver is not working for you, you might want to try an older driver. There is a lot of info in this tech article that may help: https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00106/troubleshooting-3d-camera-view-display-problems-in-chief-architect.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designers_Ink Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 Another piece of the puzzle.... The problem only occurs when the view has plot lines. If I go to a non-vector view with live updates, even with line overlays, it is not a problem. But if I update the plot lines, it crashes immediately. We have tried uninstalling the current driver, and going back a couple of different versions for both Studio and Game Ready versions. A new driver just came out, and I was hopeful it would solve the issue, but no luck. I worked through every solution NVIDIA Tech Support had to offer, and they finally gave up saying it had to be related to Chief. I even tried switching out my 4090 to my older 3090, and the problem persisted. Oddly enough, the issue with editing while in a 3D camera resolved (for the most part) when I ran Chief in Compatibility Mode. I could at least work on my files (other than updating an elevation view in my .layout file) without it crashing every few minutes. I have to take the file over to my draftsman's computer to update the view in layout, but at least I can work without it crashing every few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBCooper Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Hmm... very interesting. Not sure what "compatibility mode" does but if a normal 3D view is having problems without it, then it still sounds like something that is system/hardware related. How many plot lines get generated for the view that you are trying to update? Maybe you are running out of memory or maybe you have some bad memory? I remember having problems a long time ago with an elevation that had way too many pattern lines from a custom pattern. Can you create a very simple plan and update plot lines on that machine? Might be something that is plan specific or something related to the plan size? Could still just be a Chief bug related to making the plot lines and you are getting lucky on one machine and not the other for some reason. Not really my area of expertise so just throwing some things out that might help. I would keep working with tech support until you get this resolved though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designers_Ink Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, DBCooper said: Hmm... very interesting. Not sure what "compatibility mode" does but if a normal 3D view is having problems without it, then it still sounds like something that is system/hardware related. How many plot lines get generated for the view that you are trying to update? Maybe you are running out of memory or maybe you have some bad memory? I remember having problems a long time ago with an elevation that had way too many pattern lines from a custom pattern. Can you create a very simple plan and update plot lines on that machine? Might be something that is plan specific or something related to the plan size? Could still just be a Chief bug related to making the plot lines and you are getting lucky on one machine and not the other for some reason. Not really my area of expertise so just throwing some things out that might help. I would keep working with tech support until you get this resolved though. It seems to do it on all of my plans. I keep my patterns pretty simple with no material generated patterns because I found those always seemed to slow things down. I was hoping it was something as simple as a bad RAM module on my new build, but I have done several Memory Diagnostics checks with no errors found. I have also switched the slots the memory is in hoping it might just be a bad slot or a poorly seated module. When I looked at the Windows event log today, I found that the crash events all had different modules it says was the problem child. They were the UCRTBASE.DLL, NTDLL.DLL, QT6CORE.DLL, ASTRALRENDER.DLL, TKERNAL.DLL, CONCRT140.DLL and CACOMMON.DLL. It seems like it is not just one thing, but the crashes all seem to happen when I am either updating a plot line elevation view, or still sometimes when I am editing the model in a 3D view. Today it crashed twice doing a 360 panoramic view save. So frustrating... I appreciate the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designers_Ink Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Today I switched out Motherboard, but the problem did not resolve. I also switched out RAM and the power supply to see if that helped to narrow down the issue, but no changes. I then switched out my 4090 for a 3090 I had in another company that opens the files just fine. With the 3090 in the new computer, the problem was just the same. I am also getting more crashes just moving around the model with full camera, both in standard and PBR mode. Sometimes Chief just shuts down, and sometimes it locks up the whole computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8trim4u Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I had this issue on my system. Few weeks back. I rolled to windows 10 from 11 and it seemed to resolve.. i have no rhyme or reason why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Designers_Ink Posted January 22 Author Solution Share Posted January 22 There apparently is an issue with the 14900K and even in some cases the 13900K with the default settings on most motherboards. When I started having issues, the first thing I did was reset all of the settings on my motherboard to the defaults hoping that would cure the issue. I even replaced the ASUS motherboard with an MSI motherboard, but the issue persisted. I spent many, many hours on the phone with various tech support centers to try to find a solution, as well as just trying everything I could to ensure there was not a faulty piece of hardware on the computer. It was extremely frustrating. Yesterday, I was reading some gamer forums since gamers tend to spend a lot of time tweaking their systems. I found a thread that dealt with crashes with the 14900K i9 CPU. They were having crashes in several games when the GPU (graphics card) kicked in with a high load on the power, especially when an RTX 4090 card was in use. They had found that the default settings for the Performance Active-Core Ratio (P-Core) on most motherboards was set to around 57x. They suggested backing that down to 54x to resolve the issue using the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility App. I downloaded the software and changed each P-Core from 57x to 54x and rebooted. After about 6 hours of continuous use and many refreshes of the plot line elevations, I have not had any crashes. I hope this helps someone who might be having similar issues, so they don't spend an exhaustive number of hours trying to pinpoint a solution like I did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 13 hours ago, Designers_Ink said: There apparently is an issue with the 14900K and even in some cases the 13900K with the default settings on most motherboards. When I started having issues, the first thing I did was reset all of the settings on my motherboard to the defaults hoping that would cure the issue. I even replaced the ASUS motherboard with an MSI motherboard, but the issue persisted. I spent many, many hours on the phone with various tech support centers to try to find a solution, as well as just trying everything I could to ensure there was not a faulty piece of hardware on the computer. It was extremely frustrating. Yesterday, I was reading some gamer forums since gamers tend to spend a lot of time tweaking their systems. I found a thread that dealt with crashes with the 14900K i9 CPU. They were having crashes in several games when the GPU (graphics card) kicked in with a high load on the power, especially when an RTX 4090 card was in use. They had found that the default settings for the Performance Active-Core Ratio (P-Core) on most motherboards was set to around 57x. They suggested backing that down to 54x to resolve the issue using the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility App. I downloaded the software and changed each P-Core from 57x to 54x and rebooted. After about 6 hours of continuous use and many refreshes of the plot line elevations, I have not had any crashes. I hope this helps someone who might be having similar issues, so they don't spend an exhaustive number of hours trying to pinpoint a solution like I did. Hi Jeff , can you please provide a link to that Gamer Forum you were on , as i just picked up a 14900K and new Mobo and am rebuilding my Desktop in my Sig. around them this week. Thanks. Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designers_Ink Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 There were actually several which touched on the issue that had the same solution mentioned. Some also discussed tweaking the voltage, but that wasn’t necessary to fix my issue. I just googled “14900k crashes” can the first several ones contained good info. Some were Reddit Gamer groups that had good info. Let me know if you have trouble finding them, and I will go back in my history at the office and send you the specific ones. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smn842 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 5 hours ago, Kbird1 said: Hi Jeff , can you please provide a link to that Gamer Forum you were on , as i just picked up a 14900K and new Mobo and am rebuilding my Desktop in my Sig. around them this week. There seems to be a few more stability issues with high end stuff these days as the manufacturers are pushing the limits on every part. I have just built a 14900K and its Performance Active-Core Ratio is 57 and all works fine in Chief with a 3090. Many motherboards also increase the default CPU power limits by default which can be an issue for cooling as well as stability. RAM issues which manifest in all sorts of ways also seems to be a more common issue with the 14900K and certain motherboards (mostly lower layer count ones which affects track length variation) when using higher clocked RAM. I am lucky the DDR5 6400 in that new build is fine with the motherboard and CPU to date and passes full memory diagnostics (MemTest86 as its more thorough than Windows built in check). I didn't risk any faster RAM due to this and diminishing performance gains so I went for a good balance of latency and speed. It's always worth doing a memory check on a new build and I am now doing them every 6 months or so on key PCs after having 20 bits fail out of 128GB in another PC after some time which first showed up due to failed Macrium Reflect image backups as they cause windows to use most of the RAM for file caching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 11 hours ago, Designers_Ink said: There were actually several which touched on the issue that had the same solution mentioned. Some also discussed tweaking the voltage, but that wasn’t necessary to fix my issue. I just googled “14900k crashes” can the first several ones contained good info. Some were Reddit Gamer groups that had good info. Let me know if you have trouble finding them, and I will go back in my history at the office and send you the specific ones. Jeff Hi Jeff, i did do a quick search on google last night and was frankly surprised ( and disappointed ) to read about all the issues with the 14900k in particular as I hadn't come across any of that while researching the upgrade via Reviews etc , so your post was a bit of a surprise to be honest, especially since you are having to knock 300mhz off the speed it seems, I'd have thought new Bios's would of fixed that by now. At least with Gigabyte MBoard like my Z790 Elite AX it apparently helps to change the Gigabyte Perf.Drive Setting from Optimized to Spec Enhance ..... https://www.reddit.com/r/gigabytegaming/comments/17iwh31/comment/ki6sxga/ https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/11cfkia/gigabyte_perfdrive_explained/ 5 hours ago, Smn842 said: Many motherboards also increase the default CPU power limits by default which can be an issue for cooling as well as stability. Gigabyte is guilty of the trend to maximise voltages and there were several posts of limiting PL1 to 125w as well to help with this, but I typically enter my own voltages to lock them even if set to the same as auto as , letting the Bios apply Voltages auto has been an ongoing Issue for years now with what seems like unhealthy Voltages going to the CPU frequently, of course if you don't monitor things like that you'd never know M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I just wanted to update this thread quickly as I found a Reddit Post with some Setting that allow me to use "Unleashed" and it seems like the computer is finally operating at expected sppeds including upto 6.1Ghz etc and is stable even with a AUTO OC using XTU's Speed Optimizer. This is the thread on Reddit by ThatDangMustang (TDM) ....... My Forum Username is the same over there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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