Setting the Default layer for Pasted Text

[Chrisb222]

**EDIT: So the question in the thread title was answered; the default layer for Text cannot be changed, it's a System layer and should not be renamed. Thanks to @Kbird1 and @SNestor for working with me on this problem, and to @Dermot for solving the mystery.

 

I'm looking to change the default layer for text so that text copied from another plan is pasted into the target Default layer that I set. When I open Default Settings > Text, Callouts and Markers > Text > Edit, click the Line Style tab, settings on the Layer line tell that Text default which layer to be placed on, but has no effect on which layer is set to be the default layer for pasted text (see image). Changing the layer setting there simply unchecks "Default." I need to change which layer is the overall Default. I've searched every setting I can think of, searched Help, searched this website, and can't find that setting... and it's driving me MAD (not to mention bringing my productivity to a screeching halt). I know it can be changed because different plans have different layers set as the Default text layer, that's where the problem came up. I just don't remember how I changed it. Thanks

 

[Kbird1]

I thought it brought the layer with it, but after some testing here I an not sure if it is using the Current Plan's Layer ( the one pasting too) or if like many things in Chief, it is using the Default Layer from whatever Plan you have set as your New Plan Template as the Layer rather that the one from the Plan it came from. (similar to how it does the same for Defaults for Objects in the Library)

 

Perhaps have a try yourself in case I messed up my testing ( I may need a better methodology  ) but I changed the layer name in my current template to Text 1/4" and then opened a few test plans to test text pasting, then switched it back to "Text" in the Template and opened a New Plan and pasted into it and the Layer was back to Text even though the "copy" was Text,1/4" when copied from the earlier test Plan. 

 

 

 

However if you are using the Layer for Text Style ( Text Style Tab ) it may appear it is going to another Layer too,

eg Pasting from Working Plan SPV to a Plot Plan SPV when really it is on the original layer still.

 

 

 

Maybe Dermot can clarify what is going on ? @Dermot

 

M.

[HumbleChief]

From my experience Chief pastes to the Layer the text (or item) came from, not to the current CAD or any other Layer currently open in a plan. If the layer that the text cam from is turned off in the plan view then you paste, click anywhere and the text disappears, obviously because that layer from the other view is not turned on. One thing I've done is paste the text, then immediately open the ALDO dbx and select 'display' for that text Layer.

[Kbird1]

3 hours ago, HumbleChief said:

Chief pastes to the Layer the text (or item) came from

 

That's what I thought too, so I must have been doing something wrong earlier today with my testing....

 

M.

[Chrisb222]

Thanks Mick for having a go at this.

 

4 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

Perhaps have a try yourself in case I messed up my testing

 

Yeah good idea. I think you're onto something but I haven't figured it out yet.

 

I followed your idea and opened the OOB Residential Template and changed the NAME of the default text layer, set it to Use Layer for Text Style with a new saved 1" scale Arial text style, then saved it as a new template, opened a file using that template, and all of the Text Defaults used that new named layer as the Default layer (except those with a hardcoded dedicated text layer, i.e. electrical, framing, HVAC etc). I created a text element using the Text tool and it defaulted as expected, using the new renamed layer as the default with the correct 1" scale text style. Then I opened a plan from the OOB template (so the default layer would be a different name) and pasted, expecting it to carry with it the new default layer & text style, but it did not. It reverted to the OOB "text" layer with its associated text style. This is different than the behavior that prompted the topic; when I pasted text from one plan file to another, it brought the source plan's defaults with it.

 

A funny thing though, since my new changed layer was set to use the 1" Arial Text Style, when I hit Paste it LOOKED like it would be a 1" scale object but the actual text was the OOB font @ 1/4" scale (see image). Very weird

 

Look at the grips, they're where they would be if it were a 1" scale size, but the text object is 1/4" with the OOB default font:

 

As soon as I did anything, the grips jumped out to their normal location around the bounding box.

 

4 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

I changed the layer name in my current template to Text 1/4"

 

Yes, good idea but that's still not assigning a different Default Layer. I did a lot more testing but could never duplicate what happened earlier, and also have not been able to determine how to change the default layer used by Text Defaults except by changing the name of the OOB "Text" layer.... which really isn't assigning a different actual layer at all.

 

I read once there's on old saying around here: "It's a Chief thing!" Lol

 

 

[Chrisb222]

3 hours ago, HumbleChief said:

From my experience Chief pastes to the Layer the text (or item) came from, not to the current CAD or any other Layer currently open in a plan.

 

The source plan used the "Text" layer as the default layer. The text default for the text object copied was set to "Use Layer for Text Style." The Default text layer in the target file was a layer by a different name, with a different text style, and since the text pasted to the default layer the text changed to using those different settings. That's why I asked how to assign the default layer, which I still don't know how to do.

[Kbird1]

24 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

This is different than the behavior that prompted the topic; when I pasted text from one plan file to another, it brought the source plan's defaults with it.

 

Yes that is what I have always thought, but your question got me playing, and I may have been chasing my own tail earlier  trying to figure out what was happening.

 

Lets approach this from the other Direction   In the Example above what is it you want to happen in the Destination File ...to Keep The Source Formatting? (similar to the Word Setting ) ..... I think you'd need to set the Text Style to Custom , so the Destination File doesn't change it.

 

M. 

[Chrisb222]

28 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

what is it you want to happen

 

I want to CHANGE the Default layer for Text.

 

29 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Yes that is what I have always thought

 

...and in my test, that did not happen. It reverted to the default for the destination plan.

 

Maybe I did it wrong. Sunday night is probably not the best time to try that. 

[HumbleChief]

Can you define the style you'd like to see here?

 

 

Perhaps "Use Text Style" instead of "Use Layer for Text Style"

 

[Kbird1]

36 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

I want to CHANGE the Default layer for Text.

 

...and in my test, that did not happen. It reverted to the default for the destination plan.

 

This depends on the SPV you are in and it's Text Defaults ( and if you are using the Layer for Text Style )

 

Pasting a single instance of Text will not change the Destination Plans Defaults

 

But if you Switch the Text in the Original Plan to "Custom" before copying it,  it will hold that Custom Style in the Destination Plan.

 

  

 

but maybe it is Sunday and I am not understanding what you want to do

 

M.

 

[Dermot]

As for layers, when you copy text (rich or normal) from one plan to another, the layer will not change.  I don't know of any way to change the layer when you paste*.

 

If your text is using a custom layer that does not already exist in the new plan, the program will automatically copy the layer into the new plan.

 

I believe this is also true for all other objects.

 

*if you are pasting text from some other program, Chief will create a new text object that should follow your current text defaults.  In theory, you can use the paste special tool to change the type of text but I don't think this is a very good solution for what you are trying to do.

 

[Chrisb222]

56 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

This depends on the SPV you are in and it's Text Defaults ( and if you are using the Layer for Text Style )

 

Not in the original instance that prompted the thread. The source text brought with its LAYER default... so it kept its instruction to Use Layer for Text Style, but it was a different font because it was on a different layer than the Default layer and text style within the destination file. 

 

It's difficult to explain, I may not be communicating it clearly.

 

56 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

But if you Switch the Text in the Original Plan to "Custom" before copying it,  it will hold that Custom Style in the Destination Plan.

 

Yes I know. 

 

56 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

but maybe it is Sunday and I am not understanding what you want to do

 

Again, original question is "how to change the default layer for Text." I'm thinking it can't be changed.

 

Thanks again for your efforts. 

[Chrisb222]

55 minutes ago, Dermot said:

As for layers, when you copy text (rich or normal) from one plan to another, the layer will not change.  I don't know of any way to change the layer when you paste*.

 

Yes, the layer did in fact change. I suspect it's because the text object in the source file was set to use the default layer, and the default layer in the destination file was a different layer so the text switched to that layer.

[Kbird1]

12 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

Again, original question is "how to change the default layer for Text." I'm thinking it can't be changed.

 

Thanks again for your efforts. 

 

I as I mentioned, I don't think there is one ( global) Default for Text  it is dictated by whatever Text Default the SPV is using in both the Source and Destination Plans ***

 

16 minutes ago, Chrisb222 said:

Yes, the layer did in fact change. I suspect it's because the text object in the source file was set to use the default layer, and the default layer in the destination file was a different layer so the text switched to that layer.

.

Yes, I believe that is what I was seeing too, when I renamed the Default Text Layer in the Working SPV to Text,1/4" above , so the pasted Text was on Text,1/4" in the Destination Plan File. If I paste it into the Mechanical SPV I need to turn that Text 1/4" Layer on to see it, so it looks like it is remembering the SPV Default it was copied from ( source Plan) and looks for the same Default in the new plan which is now named Text,1/4" since the 2nd plan does not have a Layer called Text anymore, so I think more testing is needed as a Layer called Text should of been created in the 2nd plan according to Dermot. *** Perhaps things get screwed up if you rename a Chief Default Layer, rather than Creating a New Layer for a particular SPV , since changing the Chief Default Text Layer's Name changes the Text Layer throughout the Plan ( ie in All SPVs.)   Even if I make a new layer called Text , it does not paste to that Layer , it still goes to Text,1/4".....so maybe that's what you did in your 2nd Plan?

 

1 hour ago, Dermot said:

If your text is using a custom layer that does not already exist in the new plan, the program will automatically copy the layer into the new plan.

 

Mick.

[Chrisb222]

12 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

I as I mentioned, I don't think there is one ( global) Default for Text  it is dictated by whatever Text Default the SPV is using in both the Source and Destination Plans ***

 

I was asking how to change the default LAYER for text (see pic in OP) not the default TEXT. I don't think it can be done. There does seem to be a hard-coded default LAYER that can't be changed... 

 

12 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

Yes, I believe that is what I was seeing too, when I renamed the Default Text Layer in the Working SPV to Text,1/4" above , so the pasted Text was on Text,1/4" in the Destination Plan File. If I paste it into the Mechanical SPV I need to turn that Text 1/4" Layer on to see it, so it looks like it is remembering the SPV Default it was copied from ( source Plan) and looks for the same Default in the new plan which is now named Text,1/4" since the 2nd plan does not have a Layer called Text anymore, so I think more testing is needed as a Layer called Text should of been created in the 2nd plan according to Dermot. *** Perhaps things get screwed up if you rename a Chief Default Layer, rather than Creating a New Layer for a particular SPV , since changing the Chief Default Text Layer's Name changes the Text Layer throughout the Plan ( ie in All SPVs.)   Even if I make a new layer called Text , it does not paste to that Layer , it still goes to Text,1/4".....so maybe that's what you did in your 2nd Plan?

 

 

Mick.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with SPVs. The Default Layer is the same for all Text except those that have their own dedicated layer. The pic below shows the Default layer in the source file that made me start the thread (and I still don't know how it get assigned this):

 

 

When text is brought into that file from a file where the Text Default Layer is the OOB "Text," it CHANGES the layer the text was on in the source file, to the Default layer of the destination file, even though that file has a "Text" layer (see pic):

 

 

So since the copied text is using the "Default" layer, when it comes in it assumes the settings for the destination "Default" layer .... even though the layers have different names, AND the destination file contains a layer of the same name; namely, the OOB Default layer named "Text" - which is weird, and is not consistent with Dermot's post.

 

Can you change the Default layer for Text? Can you make another layer the Default, without changing the name of the OOB default layer? I haven't been able to find a way to do that. But this file has a different default layer

 

It's all very confusing. I need a drink!

[Chrisb222]

Ok I made two test files. The first one is a stripped-down sample file that has the "Text, 1/2" Scale" layer set as the Default Text layer (still don't know how I did that):

Changed Default Test File.plan

 

The second file is an OOB X12 Residential Template plan:

OOB Test File.plan

 

The "test text" copied FROM the "Changed Default Test File" and pasted TO the "OOB Test File" does NOT carry its default layer and layer settings. It reverts to the default in the destination file.

[HumbleChief]

Apologies in advance because I rarely understand the problem correctly but perhaps this will shed some light?

 

 

[Chrisb222]

10 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Apologies in advance because I rarely understand the problem correctly but perhaps this will shed some light?

 

 

 

Thanks for your efforts Larry. I know about those other settings. Since you asked what my original question was, it is "How to change the DEFAULT LAYER for Text" ... which I still do not know how to do. (see pic in original OP)

 

Somehow I changed that Default Layer in the "Changed Default" plan (which is a stripped-down version of one of my templates that has that Changed Default in it) and I don't know how I did that or why things are behaving as they are.

 

At this point I think there's maybe a bug in the program? Or something I've done? See my next post.... (and yes it is very confusing)

[Chrisb222]

Now for real fun, go into the "Changed Default" file and open the Test Text, change the Layer to Text (the OOB CA Default layer):

 

Then click the copy/paste tool and drag out a copy:

 

[Dermot]

You renamed the system layer for text and then you added a new custom layer with the same name as the original system layer name.  This is probably not a good thing to do.

 

I recommend that you don't rename system layers.  All this does is lead to confusion.  Open the Layer Display Options dialog and use the Reset Layer Names button to restore your system layers to their default names.

 

When you copy text (or any other object), the layer does not change.  In the first plan, the text in the plan is using the system layer for text and when you copy it to a new plan, it is still using the system layer for text.

 

If the text is set to "default" for the layer, then all this means is that it is using the system layer for text.  It doesn't matter that you renamed the system layer, it is still the system layer for text.  We don't copy system layers because they already exist in every plan.

The bottom line is that when we make a copy of an object we don't change the layer.  You can't do what you are asking for.  If you want us to modify the way the program works, then you need to ask for some new functionality with a feature request.

 

[Chrisb222]

20 minutes ago, Dermot said:

You renamed the system layer for text and then you added a new custom layer with the same name as the original system layer name.

 

I see that now, but it's not apparent that "Text" layer is a System layer; it doesn't have the "S" designation.

 

20 minutes ago, Dermot said:

I recommend that you don't rename system layers.  All this does is lead to confusion.  Open the Layer Display Options dialog and use the Reset Layer Names button to restore your system layers to their default names.

 

When you copy text (or any other object), the layer does not change.  In the first plan, the text in the plan is using the system layer for text and when you copy it to a new plan, it is still using the system layer for text.

 

If the text is set to "default" for the layer, then all this means is that it is using the system layer for text.  It doesn't matter that you renamed the system layer, it is still the system layer for text.  We don't copy system layers because they already exist in every plan.

The bottom line is that when we make a copy of an object we don't change the layer.  You can't do what you are asking for.  If you want us to modify the way the program works, then you need to ask for some new functionality with a feature request.

 

 

I wasn't aware that some System layers did not have the "S" designation. I see now the Residential Template has several such layers. I would never rename a System layer if I knew not to. Innocent mistake, but the program could help by perhaps locking the names of those layers so they can't be changed. Lesson learned.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[Dermot]

In the Layer Display Options dialog, we will display a symbol in the Used column.  This symbol can be a "+", a picture of a "wrench", or an "S".   The "+" means that an object is used in the plan somewhere.  The "wrench" means that it is used in your defaults somewhere.  And the "S" means that it is a system layer.

 

Layers can be used for multiple things though so we use a priority for the symbol we display.  We will always display the "+" if you have anything in the plan that is using a layer even if it is also used in defaults or a system layer.  We will always display the "wrench" if it is used in defaults even if it is also a system layer.  We will only display the "S" if it is not used in the plan or defaults.

 

The good news is that if you hover over the symbol, you should get a pop-up hint that explains where it is being used.

 

Hope this information helps.

 

[Kbird1]

2 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

I was asking how to change the default LAYER for text (see pic in OP) not the default TEXT. I don't think it can be done. There does seem to be a hard-coded default LAYER that can't be changed... 

 

 

I don't think it has anything to do with SPVs. The Default Layer is the same for all Text except those that have their own dedicated layer. The pic below shows the Default layer in the source file that made me start the thread (and I still don't know how it get assigned this):

 

 

When text is brought into that file from a file where the Text Default Layer is the OOB "Text," it CHANGES the layer the text was on in the source file, to the Default layer of the destination file, even though that file has a "Text" layer (see pic):

 

 

 

So since the copied text is using the "Default" layer, when it comes in it assumes the settings for the destination "Default" layer .... even though the layers have different names, AND the destination file contains a layer of the same name; namely, the OOB Default layer named "Text" - which is weird, and is not consistent with Dermot's post.

 

Can you change the Default layer for Text? Can you make another layer the Default, without changing the name of the OOB default layer? I haven't been able to find a way to do that. But this file has a different default layer

 

It's all very confusing. I need a drink!

 

In the destination File you have Edited the OOB Text Layer's name it appears, ( 1/4" Text DBX is using 1/2 Scale Text) which is the same as I was seeing yest. when I tried that....and got the same result.

 

Typically I have always copy the Existing (OOB) Chief Layers rather that Rename them, and is my SOP for all this kind of thing. The Text Layer doesn't have a System Icon like the rest Chief Made OOB layer, but I think that is cos it is already in Use even in an empty Plan since it is a Default Layer under Text.

 

No, you are right, it's not specifically anything to do with SPVs , it is that they control the Default Set and hence the Layersets, etc in use including the Text Layers.

 

M.

 

*** Okay I have finished reading the rest of the Thread now and see Dermot has put you right about renaming System Layers....

 

[Chrisb222]

5 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

Okay I have finished reading the rest of the Thread now and see Dermot has put you right about renaming System Layers....

 

@Kbird1 and @SNestor sorry for running you through the ringer over my dumb mistake in renaming a system layer. You guys are an incredible resource to this forum and I hate that I wasted your time but maybe someone else will see this and learn about those sneaky system layers. Thanks for all you do.

[Kbird1]

8 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

@Kbird1 and @SNestor sorry for running you through the ringer over my dumb mistake in renaming a system layer. You guys are an incredible resource to this forum and I hate that I wasted your time but maybe someone else will see this and learn about those sneaky system layers. Thanks for all you do.

 

No worries , you might want to  put an edit it your 1st Post with the Answer so other Users don't read the whole thread and confuse themselves

 

M.