SOLVED - Stainless Steel appliances turn white in X13. Why?

[PIR-Designs]

Hi All, 

 

I have been using X11. Just downloaded X13 and made a duplicate file for X13 of a design I was working on. 

When I have the "standard" view from the camera in X13, it has turned the stainless steel appliances into a white color. 

BOTH versions have the materials set at "brushed stainless steel" so they should look exactly the same. 

But you'll see in the attached photo that the X13 makes them look white. 

Any clue as to how to fix that or why it's happening?

(P.S. Don't make fun of the design, please. )

Thanks,

Lauren

X11, X13

Edited July 8, 2021 by MilitaryTVgirl
Showing that the question has been answered

[Kbird1]

There are a number of Graphics Issues in X13 related to the new Graphics Engine and it having issues with certain Videocards ie older Nvidia cards and some AMD as well. Drivers may just need updating ? see Prefs.>Render Tab

 

You really need to do your Sig. ( top right>Username>Account ) and add those details

 

Mick

[PIR-Designs]

7 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

There are a number of Graphics Issues in X13 related to the new Graphics Engine and it having issues with certain Videocards ie older Nvidia cards and some AMD as well. Drivers may just need updating ? see Prefs.>Render Tab

 

You really need to do your Sig. ( top right>Username>Account ) and add those details

 

Mick

 Hey Mick, I'm really "out of it" because I'm going through a major, major renovation. So I'm not understanding what you mean by redo my Sig - top right, username-account. What are you referring to?  I thought we had to put our name, version we're using.  Do you mean what computer I'm using too?  

Sorry... in a fog here. 

 

Lauren

[Chopsaw]

1 minute ago, MilitaryTVgirl said:

Hey Mick, I'm really "out of it" because I'm going through a major, major renovation. So I'm not understanding what you mean by redo my Sig - top right, username-account. What are you referring to?  I thought we had to put our name, version we're using.  Do you mean what computer I'm using too?  

Sorry... in a fog here. 

 

Yes a few details about your system such as CPU GPU and memory as well as GPU driver info in this case are helpful along with your current version of CA.

[Kbird1]

9 minutes ago, MilitaryTVgirl said:

 Hey Mick, I'm really "out of it" because I'm going through a major, major renovation. So I'm not understanding what you mean by redo my Sig - top right, username-account. What are you referring to?  I thought we had to put our name, version we're using.  Do you mean what computer I'm using too?  

Sorry... in a fog here. 

 

Lauren

 

Yes the Hardware , see below Chopsaw's and My Post's , you don't have a Signature at all...... and in this case the Hardware is/could be important to know

 

David did a Tip on adding it a while back here :

 

 

 

[PIR-Designs]

When Mick mentioned the Graphics Issues with X13, a lightbulb went on. I remember watching the "What's coming next with X13" webinar that I watched last October 2020. At that time I had emailed Philip Gibney with Chief Architect about where I could find info on the CA site regarding the best video card for that version (and beyond). At that time, Philip said, "We recommend the Nvidia RTX video cards, preferably the 30 series (3070, 3080, 3090), although the 20 series (2060, 2070, 2080) would still be a major step up from the 1070." So then I remembered that I had told him what I had currently on my computer... a computer which I purchased in early 2019 specifically to run CA. And now... it's already needing a new video card. Ugh!

 

As mentioned on my initial question, I have the X11 and X13 version. (I do not have the X12)

 

Here is my computer info:

Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

Intel® Core ™ i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz

32.0 GB RAM

 475 GB SSD; 1.8 TB HDD

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070, Driver v. 26.21.14.3107

 

So I suppose this answers my question. I just need a video card with more beef because the 1070 is not going to cut it. (Although I wasn't asking for a walkthrough or raytrace or anything... just a camera shot of the kitchen. So not being able to discern the brushed stainless steel in X13 yet it's perfect in X11 still baffles me. But, whatever.)

 

I'll go create a "signature now."

 

Thanks guys for all your responses!

 

Lauren

 

[SH_Canada]

1 hour ago, MilitaryTVgirl said:

So I suppose this answers my question. I just need a video card with more beef because the 1070 is not going to cut it. (Although I wasn't asking for a walkthrough or raytrace or anything... just a camera shot of the kitchen.

 I do not see where it says anywhere that the 1070 would not work, unless it does not comply with "DirectX 12 requires Shader Model 6.0 or newer."

PC Minimum¹

• Windows 10 64-bit
• 8 GB of RAM
• Video Card²
  • 2 GB of RAM
  • DirectX 12³
• 5 GB of available hard disk space
• Internet access⁴

 

 

¹ Computers with ARM processors are not supported. It is recommended that laptops have a minimum 15" screen.

² Supported video cards include (1) dedicated video cards such as NVIDIA GeForce RTX (2) Intel integrated graphics 9th Generation "Skylake" or newer.

³ DirectX 12 requires Shader Model 6.0 or newer.

[Chopsaw]

4 minutes ago, jasonN said:

 I do not see where it says anywhere that the 1070 would not work, unless it does not comply with "DirectX 12 requires Shader Model 6.0 or newer."

 

Yes a 1070 will work with X13 but not for real time raytracing.  I think there must be something up with the material or lighting.  I think there was a material update but I am not sure if it automatically substitutes the new one when you bring a plan forward.

Strange that the dishwasher seems to look ok.

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, MilitaryTVgirl said:

When Mick mentioned the Graphics Issues with X13, a lightbulb went on. I remember watching the "What's coming next with X13" webinar that I watched last October 2020. At that time I had emailed Philip Gibney with Chief Architect about where I could find info on the CA site regarding the best video card for that version (and beyond). At that time, Philip said, "We recommend the Nvidia RTX video cards, preferably the 30 series (3070, 3080, 3090), although the 20 series (2060, 2070, 2080) would still be a major step up from the 1070." So then I remembered that I had told him what I had currently on my computer... a computer which I purchased in early 2019 specifically to run CA. And now... it's already needing a new video card. Ugh!

 

As mentioned on my initial question, I have the X11 and X13 version. (I do not have the X12)

 

Here is my computer info:

Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

Intel® Core ™ i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz

32.0 GB RAM

 475 GB SSD; 1.8 TB HDD

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070, Driver v. 26.21.14.3107

 

So I suppose this answers my question. I just need a video card with more beef because the 1070 is not going to cut it. (Although I wasn't asking for a walkthrough or raytrace or anything... just a camera shot of the kitchen. So not being able to discern the brushed stainless steel in X13 yet it's perfect in X11 still baffles me. But, whatever.)

 

I'll go create a "signature now."

 

Thanks guys for all your responses!

 

Lauren

 

 

 

1st things 1st update your Nvidia Driver to the Latest ...you are on 431.07 according to your Sig. 

 

the 1070 should give you the same views as X12 , but I am also seeing subtle difference in X13 with older plans brought forward.

 

Latest is 471.22 and is very stable for me , my post on that :     https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/16205-nvidia-drivers-updated/page/3/

 

 

[Dermot]

First, and let me try to make this perfectly clear, you (as in Lauren) should not need to upgrade your computer or video card to use X13.

 

Some people may not be able to run X13 on an older computer or one using an older graphics card even though it could run X12 perfectly fine.  X13 has an entirely new rendering engine that was written from scratch that has different system requirements than X12 did.  For more information about the new system requirements, please see this web page:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/products/sysreq.html

 

In addition, some people may need to update their video card drivers to solve a wide range of problems they might run into while using X13.  This is because the new rendering engine is taking advantage of features on the video card that the older drivers may not support correctly.  If your system meets the minimum system requirements but it is having problems creating camera views, you should try updating your video card drivers first.  For more information about updating your video card drivers, please see this tech article:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00106/troubleshooting-3d-camera-view-display-problems-in-chief-architect.html

 

In addition, some people may want to upgrade their video card to take advantage of the new GPU based ray tracing that some of the newer video cards support.  If you don't care about getting higher quality images that are much better and faster than you ever could before, then a new video card is not necessary.  CPU based ray tracing is still available and should work almost exactly the same as it did in X12 and prior.  If you are interested in taking advantage of GPU ray tracing, then we recommend a Windows 10 computer with either an NVIDIA RTX or AMD Radeon RX 6000 series graphics card.  For more information about purchasing a new computer and/or graphics card, please see this blog article:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/blog/computer-for-design-and-gaming/

 

Regarding rendering differences between X12 and X13, you will likely see some differences in the appearance of materials and lighting when bringing an X12 plan forward into X13.  Most of these differences should be pretty subtle and most of them can be dealt with by adjusting lighting and/or material settings.  If you run into something that you think is going to be a problem then please feel free to report this to our technical support team.  Please be sure to include your X12 plan along with a clear description of what is different that you would like looked into.  For more information about reporting problems to tech support, please see this web page:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/

 

And lastly, regarding the appearance of stainless steel specifically, if this color is too light for the look you want, you might want to try changing the material properties to one of the other metal types instead, like maybe titanium.   Another thing you might want to do is try using a Physically Based Render (PBR) view instead.  All of the metal and glass materials will look much more realistic in a PBR view compared with a standard render view.

 

And as always, if all else fails, please feel free to contact technical support if you need more help.

 

[basilbabaa]

I am disappointedly finding X13 unusable.

 

Standard 3D views appear somewhat "dull" as compared to X12 which is crisp.  I too am seeing stainless steel as white.  And, PBR is frequently throwing internal errors as follows:  An internal rendering error has occurred (assertion failure): !"Unknown exception caught in Astral::update", resulting in me having to Force Quit the application.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[basilbabaa]

Okay so I managed to get PBR to remain stable in X13 long enough to get an Exterior 3D view of a house I am working on...

I've attached 2 screenshots looking from relatively the same vantage point...

 

Comparing the 2 attached views...  I personally prefer the X12 PBR.   It has greater definition and looks crisp and more vibrant as compared to the X13 which seems somewhat blurred and "dull".  Even the Glass looks more realistic to me in the X12 PBR version.  

 

But perhaps my definition of what is better does not meet the consensus world view???  Which view do you all prefer?

 

 

 

 

[Kbird1]

2 hours ago, basilbabaa said:

I am disappointedly finding X13 unusable.

 

Standard 3D views appear somewhat "dull" as compared to X12 which is crisp.  I too am seeing stainless steel as white.  And, PBR is frequently throwing internal errors as follows:  An internal rendering error has occurred (assertion failure): !"Unknown exception caught in Astral::update", resulting in me having to Force Quit the application.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chief has stated on the Forum that AMD released a new Consumer Driver for AMD Cards to fix issues in Chief , BUT I believe that was on Windows 10 Desktops , some are reporting similar issues on macOS Laptops but is seems AMD has not updated those drivers , at least not as yet, so I'd suggest you make a Tech Support case and report it to Apple..

 

Mick.

 

*** found the other post.....

 

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/31217-x13-2-crashes-so-far/?do=findComment&comment=246744

 

[SH_Canada]

10 hours ago, basilbabaa said:

But perhaps my definition of what is better does not meet the consensus world view???  Which view do you all prefer?

If you zoom in near the open garage door for each, you can see a noticeable difference in looking at the garage door detail, and the window you can see through the garage  door is a lot crisper in X12. That being said the X13 is brighter and when I first looked (without the zoom) I thought that one was "better"

 

only my opinion of course..

 

 

 

[PIR-Designs]

On 7/8/2021 at 4:18 PM, Dermot said:

First, and let me try to make this perfectly clear, you (as in Lauren) should not need to upgrade your computer or video card to use X13.

 

Some people may not be able to run X13 on an older computer or one using an older graphics card even though it could run X12 perfectly fine.  X13 has an entirely new rendering engine that was written from scratch that has different system requirements than X12 did.  For more information about the new system requirements, please see this web page:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/products/sysreq.html

 

In addition, some people may need to update their video card drivers to solve a wide range of problems they might run into while using X13.  This is because the new rendering engine is taking advantage of features on the video card that the older drivers may not support correctly.  If your system meets the minimum system requirements but it is having problems creating camera views, you should try updating your video card drivers first.  For more information about updating your video card drivers, please see this tech article:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00106/troubleshooting-3d-camera-view-display-problems-in-chief-architect.html

 

In addition, some people may want to upgrade their video card to take advantage of the new GPU based ray tracing that some of the newer video cards support.  If you don't care about getting higher quality images that are much better and faster than you ever could before, then a new video card is not necessary.  CPU based ray tracing is still available and should work almost exactly the same as it did in X12 and prior.  If you are interested in taking advantage of GPU ray tracing, then we recommend a Windows 10 computer with either an NVIDIA RTX or AMD Radeon RX 6000 series graphics card.  For more information about purchasing a new computer and/or graphics card, please see this blog article:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/blog/computer-for-design-and-gaming/

 

Regarding rendering differences between X12 and X13, you will likely see some differences in the appearance of materials and lighting when bringing an X12 plan forward into X13.  Most of these differences should be pretty subtle and most of them can be dealt with by adjusting lighting and/or material settings.  If you run into something that you think is going to be a problem then please feel free to report this to our technical support team.  Please be sure to include your X12 plan along with a clear description of what is different that you would like looked into.  For more information about reporting problems to tech support, please see this web page:

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/

 

And lastly, regarding the appearance of stainless steel specifically, if this color is too light for the look you want, you might want to try changing the material properties to one of the other metal types instead, like maybe titanium.   Another thing you might want to do is try using a Physically Based Render (PBR) view instead.  All of the metal and glass materials will look much more realistic in a PBR view compared with a standard render view.

 

And as always, if all else fails, please feel free to contact technical support if you need more help.

 

 

Dermot, let me say, first of all, that each and every time I use Chief Architect, I'm amazed at the vast amount of things this software can do. I'm always thinking to myself, "This took a LOT of work!" I have used AutoCAD, Revit, Sketchup and more.  I've also used 2020 Design software in the past for kitchen design. HORRIBLE... crashes at least 3-4 times an hour. When I was introduced to Chief Architect at an NKBA local meeting, I was hooked. Purchased it in January 2019 at KBIS. It has never crashed on me, and I ask a LOT from it when I'm working. I'm like a walking advertisement for Chief Architect. So I love all that you do and am in awe of what it must take to create the software and provide so many things needed for design. (I'm an interior designer.)  I'm always thinking when the CA software engineers see users saying something derogatory or just issuing a complaint about the software, that you all must feel like we're criticizing your children. LOL! But I think deep down, every single one of us are so thankful that CA exists. So thank you for all your time and incredible effort that it takes to make these things work. 

 

Now, onto the next part... you mentioned X12 several times in your answer above. I've only had X11, never downloaded X12 because by the time I realized that it was already out, there was so much talk about X13 that I thought I would just wait. So my original post showing the same shot in X11 and X13 was because I was seeing white on stainless steel appliances in X13, but they had the SAME exact materials settings. X11 seems much clearer and easier to manipulate material. After Philip Gibney (at Chief Architect) mentioned last fall that I might need a more robust video card for X13, I was kind of disappointed because I specifically purchased the desktop gaming computer I have now to run Chief Architect. I chose this $2,000 HP Omen gaming desktop computer that, at the time (January 2019), was very beefy and provided a decent ray trace for me. The computer stays cool even through 8 hours with CA  creating designs and ray traces. But to hear that I would have to get yet another video card (between $500-$1,000 depending upon where you can purchase it) I was thinking, "Oh crap. More money and someone will have to take my computer to an offsite place so they can install it. Ugh!"  Everyone keeps saying that I would only need a beefier video card if I wanted to do a real-time ray trace or walkthrough. But as mentioned, I'm an Interior Designer. If I can't wow the client with some amazing designs through software that leaves them in awe, then I won't get the job from that client. That's why I chose Chief Architect. So beautiful renderings and amazing walkthroughs are what I absolutely need. 

 

If there is a significant difference between X11 and X12, maybe I should download X12 and use that until I can get a new video card. And by the way, I get a pretty fast ray trace with my computer now. Even 10 passes create a pretty amazing rendering. But I was looking to get an NVIDIA RTX 3070, hoping that it would still be good for the next few versions of CA. Anyway, I did look at the PBR view. LOL! It looks like a photo negative. So I'll just stick with the standard view and try to manipulate the materials. 

 

Again, so thankful for all of the software engineers that create and work on Chief Architect. I do have a kind of cool suggestion. You know how CA sometimes has online seminars to talk about "what's coming" in the software and you all allow us to ask questions?  How about doing something where the software engineers have a version of that with specific types of users. Maybe one seminar for architects only - they discuss how they use it. Then another online seminar for Interior Designers. We discuss how we use it, any drawbacks or what we would like to be able to do with the software. Because I think instead of all these voices coming at you asking how things work or why "this is happening,"  you could, instead, speak to specific types of users, understand our usage individually and make notes for future versions. OR, even tell us, "Hey, it can already do that!"  

 

Thanks again Dermot! You are greatly appreciated! 

 

Lauren

 

X11 and X13

 

HP Omen Gaming Desktop

 

Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

Intel® Core ™ i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz

32.0 GB RAM

 512GB SSD; 1.8 TB HDD

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070, Driver v. 26.21.14.3107

 

 

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, MilitaryTVgirl said:

maybe I should download X12 and use that until I can get a new video card.

 

X12 works fine on my 1070 and made nice PBR views , so I's say yes download it and try it as I think the Views are "crisper" in X12 that X13 myself.

 

with any luck by Xmas you will be able to get a 3070 at a reasonable price and "Upgrade" to X13 which will of had a few updates by then hopefully.

 

Mick.

[PIR-Designs]

Thanks Mick. I may go ahead and do that. I'm hoping it will let me download it since I already downloaded X13. Does it let you download an older version (even though you can't downgrade a file to an earlier version)?

 

Lauren

[Kbird1]

1 minute ago, MilitaryTVgirl said:

Thanks Mick. I may go ahead and do that. I'm hoping it will let me download it since I already downloaded X13. Does it let you download an older version (even though you can't downgrade a file to an earlier version)?

 

Lauren

 

You should be able to download any version from your Digital Locker if SSA is current ...as far as I know.....  yes .....after hitting Download you can choose which version you want .....always good to have a local backup of the Installers for Versions you own just in case.

 

Mick.