Railing Extension and Stair Placement

[stevenyhof]

I was drawing a house the other day that required a deck and stairs with a railing for the front porch. I always use a room to start with and post to beam.

 

As I continue to use Chief I begin to learn how things work related to how rooms can connect at a 0 edge (no overlap). I'm putting this out there because some of you veterans always find other unique ways of doing things I am not thinking about. But more importantly, for Chief to offer a few more added options to what I think is a standard practice in building.

I have watched a number of videos about how to extend a concrete porch far enough to extend past the column base trim. So I do that and recently made a slab to look like a deck and works great on the sections as well. I would go so far as to say I have at times seen someone build a porch in real life where the trim overhung the porch/deck edge because of miscalculation or unskilled carpenter (which would start with the framer). I say this because Chief in trying to be a simple tool is suggesting that all posts and columns have no base trim or that base trim exists inside the room boundary. (Yes, there is a style that keeps its trim and crown molding inside the beam boundary - I cannot remember the last time I used it nor does it fit the history of columns and beams.) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder? I don't find it beautiful.

 

As shown in the picture, when a stairs is added there is a gap between the end of the stairs rail (where it meets the room boundary) and the railing centered on the columns. This gap exists because the edge of the porch or deck needs to contain the trim of the column - plus an inch or so. I made a stairs rail into a symbol to fill this gap, albeit not the most beautiful in short time.

 

So, two things. But one (1.) more important. 

1. Add an option in the stairs dbx to extend the stair railing - even to allow the relationship of the joining railings to be disconnected (no relationship) if wanted. Kind of like how we can control the stairs skirt board that allow us to extend beyond the width.
2. Add an option to extend a room floor beyond the room ceiling - allowed only where no other room is connected - like a porch. (I understand we are drawing what can be constructed and therefore in real life rooms do not overlap). Every house I draw has some form of a front porch and most have a rear porch. These spaces/rooms are typically connected to other room spaces by one, two or three walls. Which means there is always the possibility to have one to three edges extend beyond the ceiling boundary into space outside the house - allowing the column trim to rest properly inside the porch or deck edge.

 

Thank you,

Steve

 

 

[stevenyhof]

2 minutes ago, solver said:

This seems to be a suggestion, so it maybe it should be in Suggestions?

Before I put it into suggestions, I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. I will move it there. Thank you

 

[stevenyhof]

Moved to Suggestions..

 

[Kbird1]

2 hours ago, stevenyhof said:

As shown in the picture, when a stairs is added there is a gap between the end of the stairs rail (where it meets the room boundary) and the railing centered on the columns.

 

did you try pushing the Stairs to the Room Boundary ? ( foundation wall? )  just curious as you didn't share a test plan...though a cross section may not be 100% right doing that , and I suspect why you have the current gap ( so top step/tread is same width as others due to overhang on porch slab.)

 

M.

[rgardner]

3 hours ago, stevenyhof said:

I was drawing a house the other day that required a deck and stairs with a railing for the front porch. I always use a room to start with and post to beam.

 

As I continue to use Chief I begin to learn how things work related to how rooms can connect at a 0 edge (no overlap). I'm putting this out there because some of you veterans always find other unique ways of doing things I am not thinking about. But more importantly, for Chief to offer a few more added options to what I think is a standard practice in building.

I have watched a number of videos about how to extend a concrete porch far enough to extend past the column base trim. So I do that and recently made a slab to look like a deck and works great on the sections as well. I would go so far as to say I have at times seen someone build a porch in real life where the trim overhung the porch/deck edge because of miscalculation or unskilled carpenter (which would start with the framer). I say this because Chief in trying to be a simple tool is suggesting that all posts and columns have no base trim or that base trim exists inside the room boundary. (Yes, there is a style that keeps its trim and crown molding inside the beam boundary - I cannot remember the last time I used it nor does it fit the history of columns and beams.) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder? I don't find it beautiful.

 

As shown in the picture, when a stairs is added there is a gap between the end of the stairs rail (where it meets the room boundary) and the railing centered on the columns. This gap exists because the edge of the porch or deck needs to contain the trim of the column - plus an inch or so. I made a stairs rail into a symbol to fill this gap, albeit not the most beautiful in short time.

 

So, two things. But one (1.) more important. 

1. Add an option in the stairs dbx to extend the stair railing - even to allow the relationship of the joining railings to be disconnected (no relationship) if wanted. Kind of like how we can control the stairs skirt board that allow us to extend beyond the width.
2. Add an option to extend a room floor beyond the room ceiling - allowed only where no other room is connected - like a porch. (I understand we are drawing what can be constructed and therefore in real life rooms do not overlap). Every house I draw has some form of a front porch and most have a rear porch. These spaces/rooms are typically connected to other room spaces by one, two or three walls. Which means there is always the possibility to have one to three edges extend beyond the ceiling boundary into space outside the house - allowing the column trim to rest properly inside the porch or deck edge.

 

Thank you,

Steve

 

 

This actually has been addressed previously on this forum as I remember it.  I think it is a few years back though.  I believe it was Chop or Michael who pointed out that this is possible and how chief is designed to be adaptable across so many situations.  Really the railing wall with post and beam is for straightforward type situations and if we need precise placement then placing the posts and beams manually is required.  Just like you would be setting where you want the floor to and where you want the posts would be set in two applications you would just use two "tools" to show it how you want it.

 

That all being said I am sure that they could probably accomplish what you are asking for but it would also complicate the dbx more to the point that you would need to be a more advanced user to understand it and use it properly.  So it is probably a consideration for them as well to keep things simple enough as well for overall use.  Now with all THAT being said I like your suggestion to have more control over the floor overhang.  I think that could be accomplished quite easily with minimal changes to the dbx.

[stevenyhof]

21 hours ago, rgardner said:

but it would also complicate the dbx more to the point that you would need to be a more advanced user to understand it and use it properly.

As I continue to learn, and have learned other CAD software and numerous programming languages and developed software myself, one thing becomes clear... The journey to simple "anyone can do it" solutions for CAD or any software that grows to become what the complex world demands always falls short along the way. It either splits into "New User" and "Advanced User" or dies or expands to meet the needs of it's users.

 

I have found many work-a-rounds to doing the job and keep things moving. Yesterday I watched Chief's video on materials - there is nothing simple about materials and many of Chief's processes until we learn them. As I learn and go back and watch videos I used to learn Chief, I now understand much better what was being conveyed. 

Bottom line is that Chief was a great price and frankly the most amazing software outside of gaming I have used. I am hoping that Chief's desire to remain a solution for the "new users" does not fight their community of advanced users who are ready for more advanced tools and technology to design their plans and kitchens without these continue roadblocks to what I see are simple options or additional tools. 

I honestly think a split for "New Users" and "Advanced" may be an option, or multiple of options as new users become more advanced.

Let the stairs work as it's designs, but in Preferences, Advanced users can check an option to show more options in the dbx.

[Ridge_Runner]

6 hours ago, stevenyhof said:

I honestly think a split for "New Users" and "Advanced" may be an option, or multiple of options as new users become more advanced.

I think they already have that with their Home Designer products. I have used CA for many years and it has always been a "love-hate" relationship like so many other areas of life. I appreciate the work CA does to bring us new or improved features with each new upgrade. But I certainly do not envy them for the position they are in trying to control their Business Model and Business Direction and try to please all (some) of their Professional users - what a dilemma! My hat's off to them!

[Alaskan_Son]

Just now, Ridge_Runner said:

has always been a "love-hat" relationship

 

',:-/

[Ridge_Runner]

2 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

',:-/

Thanks, Michael. Sometimes my typing is good; sometimes not. Spellcheck didn't work this time.

[stevenyhof]

18 hours ago, Ridge_Runner said:

I think they already have that with their Home Designer products. I have used CA for many years and it has always been a "love-hate" relationship like so many other areas of life. I appreciate the work CA does to bring us new or improved features with each new upgrade. But I certainly do not envy them for the position they are in trying to control their Business Model and Business Direction and try to please all (some) of their Professional users - what a dilemma! My hat's off to them!

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I should look for a forum on here where I can share my journey. Love-hate for sure, but more amazed than anything else. Just yesterday I had to go back into ADT to complete a job that I started before I got into Chief, maybe 8 months ago, and man was I forgetting my commands and forgetting to hit enter, plus using Chief hot-keys in ADT and waiting for something to happen. I was not so friendly at first with how the tools of Chief worked, and I still say some can improve, but I am not liking having to go back to ADT over Chief.

 

So when I raise some issues and suggestions, there is an often unspoken "amazement" and "appreciation" for the developers and Chief as a company.

 

Nevertheless, on my walk this morning... Oh! and make sure to get out and vote!! .. I walked past a house where the column trim came flush with a 1.5" conc. overhang on the foundation below. Flush is not cool! So not only did the designer fail to make this clear on the print, but the builder also followed the print instead of knowing there will be a discrepancy in the final results if they are built to line up.

 

 

Anyway, I can hope that offering some suggestions now and then, and gaining the support of this community, that regardless of how we come across as negative or complaining at times, we do appreciate those working hard on the software. 

[DzinEye]

18 hours ago, Ridge_Runner said:

My hat's off to them!

Your love hat ?!?