Porch w/ Siding on Bottom Walls & Screen on Top


kwhitt
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Just now, SNestor said:

@rgardner @Kbird1

So...I'm a bit confused.  

 

If we use say "siding-4" as the wall type for a "post to beam" style railing wall...how do you then get a "screen material" on top of the siding wall on the bottom?  Are you using a P-solid and painting it? Or...maybe a molding polyline?  Or is there a way to get this railing wall to have separate materials on the top and bottom that I'm totally missing?

 

What Mick showed above is like a pony wall...but no one has suggested a pony wall...so, like I said.  I'm lost here...

Yes Steve it is using a "pony wall" for the lower solid wall and a railing to beam or ceiling with panel for the screen portion.  I usually use a 1/8" thick panel with the wire mesh as the material but Mick made a good suggestion of setting it to glass then using the mesh material so as to adjust the transparency.

 

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28 minutes ago, SNestor said:

What Mick showed above is like a pony wall...but no one has suggested a pony wall...so, like I said.  I'm lost here...

 

You are right Steve it's a pony Wall , so I clarified my other posts for future Readers above

 

* This is a Pony wall for clarification - normal Siding 4 with Railing - Post to beam Above

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3 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

You are right Steve it's a pony Wall , so I clarified my other posts for future Readers above

 

* This is a Pony wall for clarification - normal Siding 4 with Railing - Post to beam Above

@rgardner

Thanks...I thought you were using a pony wall. 

 

One more thing however...can you display the newel posts in plan view?  I've been unable to get them to show...so, basically your screen porch room looks like a room with solid walls.  Am I missing something?

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9 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

You are right Steve it's a pony Wall , so I clarified my other posts for future Readers above

 

* This is a Pony wall for clarification - normal Siding 4 with Railing - Post to beam Above

@rgardner

 

Ok..so you are using a pony wall.  Still my question is.  How do you get a solid panel on the upper portion?  If the bottom wall is a siding-4 (modified to have siding on two sides) what wall type are you using for the upper wall type?  I'm not understanding how you get a "post to beam" railing wall, a siding-4 wall on the bottom and a solid panel in the railing wall?  

 

Can you post the wall definition so I can see what you are doing?  Thanks!

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2 hours ago, SNestor said:

@rgardner

Thanks...I thought you were using a pony wall. 

 

One more thing however...can you display the newel posts in plan view?  I've been unable to get them to show...so, basically your screen porch room looks like a room with solid walls.  Am I missing something?

 

I'd like to know about the newel posts too. 

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3 hours ago, SNestor said:

@rgardner

 

Ok..so you are using a pony wall.  Still my question is.  How do you get a solid panel on the upper portion?  If the bottom wall is a siding-4 (modified to have siding on two sides) what wall type are you using for the upper wall type?  I'm not understanding how you get a "post to beam" railing wall, a siding-4 wall on the bottom and a solid panel in the railing wall?  

 

Can you post the wall definition so I can see what you are doing?  Thanks!

Sorry was finishing up a deadline.

 

This is what worked for me:

image.thumb.png.c0303c4cfcde9eaea2d99df4e0c60463.pngimage.thumb.png.6a3dbbc352a6fc663a71bf8449e109ef.pngimage.thumb.png.1a6066df4c1effc1976f36f2c291fef4.png

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53 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

 

I'd like to know about the newel posts too. 

image.thumb.png.a69a535577ba49bc03d113cba8581bf8.pngimage.thumb.png.576436390fd4ef8e6df31c040d0abd07.pngimage.thumb.png.83633f39b7ed4abe96edd4b57c055955.png

 

 

BTW this is set as a balcony room and I changed the structure to be a 2x10 pressure treated joist with a decking material.

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6 minutes ago, rgardner said:

Sorry was finishing up a deadline.

 

This is what worked for me:

image.thumb.png.c0303c4cfcde9eaea2d99df4e0c60463.pngimage.thumb.png.6a3dbbc352a6fc663a71bf8449e109ef.pngimage.thumb.png.1a6066df4c1effc1976f36f2c291fef4.png

Thanks.  But - if you look at this wall in framing view the posts do not extend to the floor.  I thought that was the goal?  Also - when you select panel the wall cap is assigned to the top of the panel and not at the top of the pony wall.  

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18 minutes ago, SNestor said:

Thanks.  But - if you look at this wall in framing view the posts do not extend to the floor.  I thought that was the goal?  Also - when you select panel the wall cap is assigned to the top of the panel and not at the top of the pony wall.  

You are right with the Wall cap that it would need to be added as a molding line to do this.  That is the downside to using a panel instead of a solid wall but it is alot easier and more dynamic to place a molding line for that actual molding than to try to place in this example 6 polyline solids for the screen enclosure.  It is surely not the only way to do it nor am I saying it is the best way to do it.  I am just saying it is the method that I use for my screened porches (I do lots of plans in Michigan and Wisconsin where apparently the mosquitos are bigger than the birds.)  It does allow to get everything as close as possible automatically with no polyline solids needed. 

 

The posts if you need them to model can be done a couple of ways.  1.) Use your manually placed posts from below and bring them to the underside of the beam or ceiling if using flush beams. or 2.) Bring the posts to the top of the pony wall height and align with the posts in the railing wall.  These are just a couple of the ways that come to mind to accomplish it.  I believe the OP was asking about showing the newel posts in plan view which is what I showed him in the response above.  I was not saying that it would auto place the post through, or at least I did not mean to infer that.  Hope this helps someone.

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7 hours ago, rgardner said:

Nice Trick!  So you "paint" the wire mesh to the glass?  And that allows you to set the transparency?

 

*** no need for the Glass Panel in X12 at least, I used a polyline Solid instead and could still set the Mesh's Transparency to 75% in the Railing Wall .

 

image.thumb.png.b638e1b32d1bd53f0dd32c66d2fab30f.png

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44 minutes ago, rgardner said:

You are right with the Wall cap that it would need to be added as a molding line to do this.  That is the downside to using a panel instead of a solid wall but it is alot easier and more dynamic to place a molding line for that actual molding than to try to place in this example 6 polyline solids for the screen enclosure.  It is surely not the only way to do it nor am I saying it is the best way to do it.  I am just saying it is the method that I use for my screened porches (I do lots of plans in Michigan and Wisconsin where apparently the mosquitos are bigger than the birds.)  It does allow to get everything as close as possible automatically with no polyline solids needed. 

 

The posts if you need them to model can be done a couple of ways.  1.) Use your manually placed posts from below and bring them to the underside of the beam or ceiling if using flush beams. or 2.) Bring the posts to the top of the pony wall height and align with the posts in the railing wall.  These are just a couple of the ways that come to mind to accomplish it.  I believe the OP was asking about showing the newel posts in plan view which is what I showed him in the response above.  I was not saying that it would auto place the post through, or at least I did not mean to infer that.  Hope this helps someone.

 

I've noticed something about these newel posts that seems odd to me.  They don't seem to line up with the framing.  I can, of course, offset them by 1/4", but then they don't align with the beam above.  Is this a bug?  Plan attached.

offset.jpg

offset02.jpg

offset_DBX.jpg

offset_DXBEAM.jpg

offset wall post.plan

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21 hours ago, SNestor said:

@rgardner @Kbird1

So...I'm a bit confused.  

 

If we use say "siding-4" as the wall type for a "post to beam" style railing wall...how do you then get a "screen material" on top of the siding wall on the bottom?  Are you using a P-solid and painting it? Or...maybe a molding polyline?  Or is there a way to get this railing wall to have separate materials on the top and bottom that I'm totally missing?

 

What Mick showed above is like a pony wall...but no one has suggested a pony wall...so, like I said.  I'm lost here...

 

In the posts above we discuss and are showing two different Wall types :

  1. one is a Pony Wall ( no post to ground ) with a solid wall and a Railing on Top
  2. the other is a Railing with the Solid Rail option set (Posts to ground) and the walltype set to the desired exterior Walltype

 

M.

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4 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

 

I've noticed something about these newel posts that seems odd to me.  They don't seem to line up with the framing.  I can, of course, offset them by 1/4", but then they don't align with the beam above.  Is this a bug?  Plan attached.

 

offset02.jpg

 

 

offset wall post.plan

 

 

Not a bug Chief automatically centers Newels in the width of the wall  - and your wall has no siding on the outside  .............. who's fault is that :ph34r: 

 

:)

 

M.

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9 hours ago, SNestor said:

@kwhitt - designate walls are "railings".  Then...select pony wall.  Create a new wall type for the lower section with siding on two sides.  Just copy the Siding-4 (or 6) wall type.  Put a cap on the pony wall. 

 

For railing - use "solid" panels.  Then paint the panel with a screen material.  Should work...

 

I've attached a sample plan...and a few pics. 

PLAN: Screen Porch Pony Wall with Framing 01.plan

 

2020-06-26_10-25-01.thumb.png.82d0fd83a32e58158d97036237d88202.png2020-06-26_10-24-48.thumb.png.d0e3f232eab580ef504ac9577b045cab.png

 

Steve - thanks for the input and file.  I was just reading this thread over again as I was sure I missed something.  This is definitely how I would build it, however, the client has other ideas.  

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7 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

Sorry for the quadruple post - not sure how I did this... and can't find a way to delete the duplicates...

 

your own posts should have a delete option next to the quote button under Options

 

image.thumb.png.58003fbd583a5c2dbeb237d17f0e5b6e.png

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6 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

 

Not a bug Chief automatically centers Newels in the width of the wall  - and your wall has no siding on the outside  .............. who's fault is that :ph34r: 

 

:)

 

M.

 

Aha...  That said, I removed the siding on the one side at your recommendation and replaced with a polyline solid to cover the rim joist with siding on the exterior...  ;) Seems one workaround causes other problems...  Thanks for you time today.  

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1 minute ago, Kbird1 said:

 

your own posts should have a delete option next to the quote button under Options

 

image.thumb.png.58003fbd583a5c2dbeb237d17f0e5b6e.png

 

Got it.  I was trying to find a button from within the editor DBX to delete.  Taken care of now.

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2 hours ago, kwhitt said:

 

I'd like to know about the newel posts too. 

 

If using the Railing with Solid Wall?   Frame the Wall with 4x4 at 48"OC ( or whatever center you need) and show Wall Framing .

 

This requires making/copying a Stud (Framing) material.....

 

  image.thumb.png.4c3c5916a76df73534bb838f92ec1c26.pngimage.thumb.png.a06b34f7529db75911169173e2e0e6ea.png

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7 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

If using the Railing with Solid Wall?   Frame the Wall with 4x4 at 48"OC ( or whatever center you need) and show Wall Framing .

 

This requires making/copying a Stud (Framing) material.....

 

  image.thumb.png.4c3c5916a76df73534bb838f92ec1c26.pngimage.thumb.png.a06b34f7529db75911169173e2e0e6ea.png

 

Clever!

 

Do you happen to have a way around the post not centering on the wall when there are disparate thicknesses on either side.  This beam not aligning is bothering me.

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7 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

 

Clever!

 

Do you happen to have a way around the post not centering on the wall when there are disparate thicknesses on either side.  This beam not aligning is bothering me.

 

Try adding a 7/16" No Material Opening material ( same as Insulation-AirGap ) back to the Exterior of the Wall , may need to make the P.Solid Siding 1/2" instead

 

M.

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17 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Try adding a 7/16" No Material Opening material ( same as Insulation-AirGap ) back to the Exterior of the Wall , may need to make the P.Solid Siding 1/2" instead

 

M.

Works great. Thanks!

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58 minutes ago, solver said:

This seems to create a potential hinge where the upper and lower walls join.

 

ct1.thumb.png.e04f07e9490b0ccc55a9bc4ea3081164.png

 

57 minutes ago, solver said:

It seems as if this has been resolved.

 

Could someone post a plan showing the result?

 

I don't think it would be actually built this way ie as a Pony Wall , it was just a way of modelling it in Chief but I am not sure which method ( wall type) Kevin went with in the End ?

 

The Balcony Room with the Railing Wall ( not Pony Wall ) with the Wall Framed at 48" OC , seems to work for me though fairly well.

 

A Combo of all the Tips in this thread?

 

MHD_Covered -Screened Porch.plan

 

M.

 

image.thumb.png.f712312faaee8adec6b8e955caef70ab.pngimage.thumb.png.b97020309ff1698d1701cb218dac2bb7.png  

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Using the Room designated as a Balcony as Ryan suggested seems to allow the Railing wall to auto generate the solid walls Siding to the bottom of the Joists ( floor system)  automatically, so there is no need for the P.Solids, and you can set the Balcony Floor structure up just like a Deck,  it just won't auto build the framing like a Deck will. 

 

M.

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