kwhitt

Porch w/ Siding on Bottom Walls & Screen on Top

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I'm designing a porch where the client wants the lower 3' to be siding on both the interior and exterior walls.  The upper section will be screen.  I am attempting to do this by using a pony wall (at least this is my first thought).  The siding will not show up on the lower section.  Also, I am concerned that using this method, it won't frame properly as the wall structure is to be 4 x 4 posts to beam with the siding applied to the bottom portion over 7/16" OSB and a wall cap.  I'm sure I'm going about this the wrong way.  Any advice on how to make this type of wall?  Thanks, Kevin

Untitled-1.jpg

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Maybe a Wall definition Issue? as it seems to work okay for me..... 

 

* This is a Pony wall for clarification - normal Siding 4 with Railing - Post to beam Above

 

image.thumb.png.ca1939b33247a9dcf7eaece5bbe6a702.pngimage.thumb.png.9e579faf31a8edfbae6059b00e7642e1.png

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@kwhitt - designate walls are "railings".  Then...select pony wall.  Create a new wall type for the lower section with siding on two sides.  Just copy the Siding-4 (or 6) wall type.  Put a cap on the pony wall. 

 

For railing - use "solid" panels.  Then paint the panel with a screen material.  Should work...

 

I've attached a sample plan...and a few pics. 

PLAN: Screen Porch Pony Wall with Framing 01.plan

 

2020-06-26_10-25-01.thumb.png.82d0fd83a32e58158d97036237d88202.png2020-06-26_10-24-48.thumb.png.d0e3f232eab580ef504ac9577b045cab.png

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1 hour ago, Kbird1 said:

Maybe a Wall definition Issue? as it seems to work okay for me.....

 

image.thumb.png.ca1939b33247a9dcf7eaece5bbe6a702.pngimage.thumb.png.9e579faf31a8edfbae6059b00e7642e1.png

 

38 minutes ago, SNestor said:

@kwhitt - designate walls are "railings".  Then...select pony wall.  Create a new wall type for the lower section with siding on two sides.  Just copy the Siding-4 (or 6) wall type.  Put a cap on the pony wall. 

 

For railing - use "solid" panels.  Then paint the panel with a screen material.  Should work...

 

I've attached a sample plan...and a few pics. 

PLAN: Screen Porch Pony Wall with Framing 01.plan

 

2020-06-26_10-25-01.thumb.png.82d0fd83a32e58158d97036237d88202.png2020-06-26_10-24-48.thumb.png.d0e3f232eab580ef504ac9577b045cab.png

 

Steve and Mick - thanks for the replies.  I'm not sure why the siding isn't showing up.  I'll post the wall type if I continue to have issues.

 

That said - I'm not sure they will be building the structure as shown by Steve.  I imagine the posts will extend all the way down to the floor platform and the siding will be attached to both sides at the bottom.  Any ideas on how to do this?  I know I can define the entire wall as a railing and choose "solid" for the lower portion, but this does not give me options to include the wall layers (i.e. - siding, OSB, housewrap).  Any ideas?

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8 hours ago, kwhitt said:

 

 

Steve and Mick - thanks for the replies.  I'm not sure why the siding isn't showing up.  I'll post the wall type if I continue to have issues.

 

That said - I'm not sure they will be building the structure as shown by Steve.  I imagine the posts will extend all the way down to the floor platform and the siding will be attached to both sides at the bottom.  Any ideas on how to do this?  I know I can define the entire wall as a railing and choose "solid" for the lower portion, but this does not give me options to include the wall layers (i.e. - siding, OSB, housewrap).  Any ideas?

 

Yes it does, (should),  just change the Walltype to your desired Siding Type , then set it as a Solid Railing , the issue will be the Wall Cap will be cut at each post I think but a molding line or P.Solid would fix that pretty easily.

 

**** This is NOT  a Pony wall for clarification - normal Siding 4 wall set as a Solid Railing - Post to Beam Above

 

image.thumb.png.7be2012e866ad68e1698406bea04695e.pngimage.thumb.png.3826d968f61af2f1dffb9209252a6dd6.png

 

image.thumb.png.b1529c00158dad1ea54a15620999db89.pngimage.thumb.png.0094271b401330aba7daa8b0c573f35d.png

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I do quite a few screen porches but we never do two sets of panels.  I usually have a solid (sided) wall below then posts going up to a beam but the posts are hidden in the wall below so it is not modeled.  To do that, I use the method Steve did above, however instead of using solid and painting it I use a 1/8" thick panel with the wire mesh as the material.  Very clean.

 

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8 hours ago, rgardner said:

  however instead of using solid and painting it I use a 1/8" thick panel with the wire mesh as the material.  Very clean.

 

 

That what I do as well except I use Chief's "Glass Panel" from the Library, then apply the Mesh to it, which seems to still allow you to set the Mesh's "Transparency" which is sometimes helpful but maybe the Transparency option works anyway? this is just how I have always done it.

 

*** no need for the Glass Panel in X12 at least, I used a polyline Solid in a post below instead and could still set the Mesh's Transparency to 75%

 

image.thumb.png.3fc047378ffaa1c260883c406861e7b2.pngimage.thumb.png.721b5cf04860ad7945dca9dae3fec322.png

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19 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Yes it does, (should),  just change the Walltype to your desire Siding Type , then set it as a Solid Railing , the issue will be the Wall Cap will be cut at each post I think but a molding line or P.Solid would fix that pretty easily.

 

image.thumb.png.7be2012e866ad68e1698406bea04695e.pngimage.thumb.png.3826d968f61af2f1dffb9209252a6dd6.png

 

image.thumb.png.b1529c00158dad1ea54a15620999db89.pngimage.thumb.png.0094271b401330aba7daa8b0c573f35d.png

 

Mick - you are correct.  It did work.  I had to set my interior/exterior materials to default.  Must have gotten painted at one point.  I'm getting there...

 

I have a new issue (see attached).  The siding needs to come down to meet the siding on the existing part of the house.  The floor platform in the existing part of the house is comprised of 2 x 10's.  The floor platform of the deck is using 2 x 8's.  The deck is lowered 2", so that the siding will align.  Do I need to fill this in manually?  Or could there be a "tick" for this somewhere?  I tried looking into the sill without any luck.  I know this framing isn't conventional, but it's exactly what the builders wants as per our phone call a few minutes ago.  Thanks again for the help, Kevin

siding.jpg

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2 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

 

Mick - you are correct.  It did work.  I had to set my interior/exterior materials to default.  Must have gotten painted at one point.  I'm getting there...

 

I have a new issue (see attached).  The siding needs to come down to meet the siding on the existing part of the house.  The floor platform in the existing part of the house is comprised of 2 x 10's.  The floor platform of the deck is using 2 x 8's.  The deck is lowered 2", so that the siding will align.  Do I need to fill this in manually?  Or could there be a "tick" for this somewhere?  I tried looking into the sill without any luck.  I know this framing isn't conventional, but it's exactly what the builders wants as per our phone call a few minutes ago.  Thanks again for the help, Kevin

siding.jpg

 

You trying to fill in my Day ? :) 

 

  1. In and elevation camera select the Wall
  2. open the DBX , uncheck Railing , ( don't panic)
  3. grab bottom of Wall and pull it down to the bottom of the Joists,
  4. re-check Railing ( phew)
  5.  hit Ok

 

Let me know If I missed a step.....  it's the same trick used for Fascia Mounted Railings , there are a few posts on that here too.

 

Mick.

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34 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

You trying to fill in my Day ? :) 

 

  1. In and elevation camera select the Wall
  2. open the DBX , uncheck Railing , ( don't panic)
  3. grab bottom of Wall and pull it down to the bottom of the Joists,
  4. re-check Railing ( phew)
  5.  hit Ok

 

Let me know If I missed a step.....  it's the same trick used for Fascia Mounted Railings , there are a few posts on that here too.

 

Mick.

Not sure of this but the idea of making it a balcony room comes to mind and makes me think that it may fill it in below?  Or possibly just a wall material region?

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53 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

That what I do as well except I use Chief's "Glass Panel" from the Library, then apply the Mesh to it, which seems to still allow you to set the Mesh's "Transparency" which is sometimes helpful but maybe the Transparency option works anyway? this is just how I have always done it.

 

image.thumb.png.3fc047378ffaa1c260883c406861e7b2.pngimage.thumb.png.721b5cf04860ad7945dca9dae3fec322.png

Nice Trick!  So you "paint" the wire mesh to the glass?  And that allows you to set the transparency?

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38 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

You trying to fill in my Day ? :) 

 

  1. In and elevation camera select the Wall
  2. open the DBX , uncheck Railing , ( don't panic)
  3. grab bottom of Wall and pull it down to the bottom of the Joists,
  4. re-check Railing ( phew)
  5.  hit Ok

 

Let me know If I missed a step.....  it's the same trick used for Fascia Mounted Railings , there are a few posts on that here too.

 

Mick.

Thanks Mick.  It's not my intention to monopolize your day, but glad you're around.  ;)

 

That said, I used your steps above and it didn't work.  When I unticked "railing", the siding went to the correct place and when I ticked it again, it jumped back up.  Ideas?

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7 minutes ago, rgardner said:

Not sure of this but the idea of making it a balcony room comes to mind and makes me think that it may fill it in below?  Or possibly just a wall material region?

 

Ryan - thanks.  Changing to balcony works, but I lose my pier footings.  

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48 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

You trying to fill in my Day ? :) 

 

  1. In and elevation camera select the Wall
  2. open the DBX , uncheck Railing , ( don't panic)
  3. grab bottom of Wall and pull it down to the bottom of the Joists,
  4. re-check Railing ( phew)
  5.  hit Ok

 

Let me know If I missed a step.....  it's the same trick used for Fascia Mounted Railings , there are a few posts on that here too.

 

Mick.

 

Mick - I take that back.  It does sorta' work, but my rim joist is poking through the siding.  Thoughts on this?

rim joist.jpg

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18 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

Thanks Mick.  It's not my intention to monopolize your day, but glad you're around.  ;)

 

That said, I used your steps above and it didn't work.  When I unticked "railing", the siding went to the correct place and when I ticked it again, it jumped back up.  Ideas?

 

I was just joking , I was up early and checking out the Forum......

 

sounds like the "create on lower platform" check box is un-check in the Railing DBX ...... I have read it's not needed here but that does not always seem to be the case , at least for me.

 

M.

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9 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

 

Ryan - thanks.  Changing to balcony works, but I lose my pier footings.  

Makes sense.  To be honest I never use chiefs support for decks because I always end up manually placing any beams and posts/footings.  I generally re-frame the deck anyways and just use the auto feature to put it in there initially until I am happy with it.  That allows me to use double or triple 2x if I want or to set a flush beam and posts at corners instead.

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7 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I was just joking , I was up early and checking out the Forum......

 

sounds like the "create on lower platform" check box is un-check in the Railing DBX ...... I have read it not needed here but that does not always seem to be the case , at least for me.

 

M.

Mick - are you saying untick "generate between platforms" and try the above method again?  Kevin

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1 minute ago, rgardner said:

Makes sense.  To be honest I never use chiefs support for decks because I always end up manually placing any beams and posts/footings.  I generally re-frame the deck anyways and just use the auto feature to put it in there initially until I am happy with it.  That allows me to use double or triple 2x if I want or to set a flush beam and posts at corners instead.

 

Thanks Ryan.  You're right.  I guess I can just place my pier/footings manually which I intend to tweak anyway.  Speaking of double or triple beams, do you actually draw those out individually?  I am using a triple 2 x 10 beam and just drew it as a single member 4.5" thick with a custom label.  I was curious how others do this.  Kevin

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2 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

 

Thanks Ryan.  You're right.  I guess I can just place my pier/footings manually which I intend to tweak anyway.  Speaking of double or triple beams, do you actually draw those out individually?  I am using a triple 2 x 10 beam and just drew it as a single member 4.5" thick with a custom label.  I was curious how others do this.  Kevin

I do them individually so they show as three lines and I only allow one of the labels to show but change it to say "(3) 2x10 Flush Beam".

 

But I am sure some others may have some good suggestions in this regards.
 

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18 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

Mick - are you saying untick "generate between platforms" and try the above method again?  Kevin

 

Actually , that trick for fascia Mounted Railings may not work in this case as the Rail in the Case of FM Railing usually have an invisible layer added to them to force the Posts out over the deck edge.

 

Post your Plan.... or a test plan....

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Actually , that trick for fascia Mounted Railings may not work in this case as the Rail in the Case of FM Railing usually have an invisible layer added to them to force the Posts out over the deck edge.

 

Post your Plan.... or a test plan....

 

 

 

Thanks Mick.  You read my mind.  While you were typing, I was zipping this file.  Kevin

CHF_Haurand Addition_06-26-20.zip

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22 minutes ago, rgardner said:

I do them individually so they show as three lines and I only allow one of the labels to show but change it to say "(3) 2x10 Flush Beam".

 

But I am sure some others may have some good suggestions in this regards.
 

 

Ryan - thanks for your input.  Balcony is not working now either as the floor platform on the deck (or porch) is comprised of 2 x 8 floor joists.  The main house has 2 x 10 floor joists.  When you lower the porch by 2", the siding should line up due to the 2" difference in framing members.  What actually occurs is shown in the attached illustration.  There has got to be an easier way...

 

I have attached the file in the above post, if you have time to take a look.  Kevin

balcony.jpg

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36 minutes ago, kwhitt said:

 

Thanks Mick.  You read my mind.  While you were typing, I was zipping this file.  Kevin

CHF_Haurand Addition_06-26-20.zip

 

Switching the Railing to Solid automatically turns "generate on lower Platform" Off , so it doesn't work. So the easiest fix is to make your 2 sided Deck wall one sided with no siding on exterior Side and then in elevation apply a 7/16 thick P.Solid with the Siding Material Applied to cover the Wall and Joists.  ( WMR would not work here either )

 

image.thumb.png.82f7d3aa617d33294f05091231054a6d.png

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11 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Switching the Railing to Solid automatically turns "generate on lower Platform" Off , so it doesn't work. So the easiest fix is to make your 2 sided Deck wall one sided with no siding on exterior Side and then in elevation apply a 7/16 thick P.Solid with the Siding Material Applied to cover the Wall and Joists.  ( WMR would not work here either )

 

image.thumb.png.82f7d3aa617d33294f05091231054a6d.png

 

Thanks Mick.  Will do!  Kevin

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@rgardner @Kbird1

So...I'm a bit confused.  

 

If we use say "siding-4" as the wall type for a "post to beam" style railing wall...how do you then get a "screen material" on top of the siding wall on the bottom?  Are you using a P-solid and painting it? Or...maybe a molding polyline?  Or is there a way to get this railing wall to have separate materials on the top and bottom that I'm totally missing?

 

What Mick showed above is like a pony wall...but no one has suggested a pony wall...so, like I said.  I'm lost here...

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