dshall Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 I am late to the party.... again. I sent my ELEVATIONS & SECTIONS to layout with PLOT LINES (no color fill) before this pandemic. Now with the Cities taking on line digital submittals I am going to be using color much more. For ELEVATIONS I am now using LIVE VIEW (update on demand) sent to layout...... should I use PLOT LINES (color fill?) For SECTIONS, what do you guys suggest..... PLOT LINES (with color) or LIVE VIEWS? thanks, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Yeah big changes in store for submittals in our city (San Diego) and didn't think about sending color prints. The first thought I had was that if the plans will eventually need to be printed any color printing will take the fun out printing costs? But more to the point of your post's question I send 'LIVE VIEWS' (update on demand) in black and white for sections elevation etc. Would love to start using color but don't know if the printing costs (if they are even going to print sets) would be prohibitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, HumbleChief said: ...... Would love to start using color but don't know if the printing costs (if they are even going to print sets) would be prohibitive. I think you can print in color to PDF, and then when you send the color PDF to your print shop, I believe they have the option to print in color or black and white...... correct? Yeah, the color printing is a cost my clients do not want to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, dshall said: I think you can print in color to PDF, and then when you send the color PDF to your print shop, I believe they have the option to print in color or black and white...... correct? Yeah, the color printing is a cost my clients do not want to pay. Yeah my print shop (which is probably yours as well) does just that and I guess the City could do the same with color sets - print them in B & W - but what would the purpose then be of sending anything in color? I also had an idea that they may not print hard copy at all? The inspector arrives at the job site with the plans on his iPad, does his inspection, signs off and he's out of there. Going to be very interesting to see how the digital submission strategy plays out. Giunea pig anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 21 minutes ago, dshall said: Yeah, the color printing is a cost my clients do not want to pay. I have clients that like color, others do not, others want both! For those that want both, I'll copy the elevation drawings to added pages at the very end of the layout. That way its simple for the client to omit them when printing. I limit my color use on floor plans to colors that are dark yet clearly distinguishable when viewing on screen, but will still print nicely if printed using black ink only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, robdyck said: I have clients that like color, others do not, others want both! For those that want both, I'll copy the elevation drawings to added pages at the very end of the layout. That way its simple for the client to omit them when printing. I limit my color use on floor plans to colors that are dark yet clearly distinguishable when viewing on screen, but will still print nicely if printed using black ink only. Do you use LIVE VIEW or PLOT LINES? What do you think the upside or downside is of each method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 24 minutes ago, dshall said: I think you can print in color to PDF, and then when you send the color PDF to your print shop, I believe they have the option to print in color or black and white...... correct? They can print black and white...but it'll be gray scale. They can't 'turn off' the color. Grayscale printing will use a lot of black ink and in my experience some print shops do a great job and others do not. Think grayscale but using black ink only and at a 'draft' quality...not good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Just now, dshall said: Do you use LIVE VIEW or PLOT LINES? Plot Lines, Color Fill, and Pattern Line Defaults, but NOT Edge Line Defaults (usually). In the past, the Live View resulted in edge lines that were slightly blurry when viewing the pdf on screen...which causes eye fatigue. My MO is seeing..not looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 You can see in this view how the color elevation answers a lot of questions about the buildings appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Curious, do plot line views update? ..and wasn't there a furious debate a few years back about live views, the lack thereof, and the demand they be included in Chief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, robdyck said: You can see in this view how the color elevation answers a lot of questions about the buildings appearance. exactly, color is awesome..... so you use plot lines with color fill because it looks better on monitor, I get it. an advantage of LIVE VIEW (if you can get past blurriness on screen) is it updates much much faster. Yews Larry, plot lines update when you ask all views to be updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, dshall said: Yes Larry, plot lines update when you ask all views to be updated. ...interesting - did not know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, dshall said: if you can get past blurriness on screen I can not. 2 minutes ago, dshall said: is it updates much much faster I find that live views make working in layout soooo slow. Plus, what about all the errant lines in an elevation drawing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, robdyck said: You can see in this view how the color elevation answers a lot of questions about the buildings appearance. Yeah I can see no down side to color for presentation purposes as your very nice elevation clearly shows. Rob, do you think something like that would print OK in B & W? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, robdyck said: I can not. I find that live views make working in layout soooo slow. Hmmmm..... even if UPDATE ON DEMAND is selected and not UPDATE ALWAYS being selected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, robdyck said: I can not. I find that live views make working in layout soooo slow. Plus, what about all the errant lines in an elevation drawing? I use live views 'update on demand' and don't experience any slow downs - I don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleChief Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, dshall said: Hmmmm..... even if UPDATE ON DEMAND is selected and not UPDATE ALWAYS being selected? Yeah that's been my experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Just now, HumbleChief said: Rob, do you think something like that would print OK in B & W? Yes it does, as long as the printer uses a quality print setting. Black lines with black fill areas can create a problem though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidJames Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 I only use Plot Lines. I'm not sure if it's just me, but I find that when it comes to printing, Plot Lines appears to be cleaner than Live Views. Another nice benefit of using Plot Lines is being able to use the Edit Linework tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, dshall said: Hmmmm..... even if UPDATE ON DEMAND is selected and not UPDATE ALWAYS being selected? Then I'm always looking at dog crap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Live View issues: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, robdyck said: Live View issues: You have a point. Back in the day that kind of stuff was rampant, these days. not so bad. These days I live with it... benefits outweigh the downside for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Plot Lines using Pattern Line Defaults for me. With plot lines we get more accurate and robust control over exactly how lines display and print, the results are sharper and crisper since they’re all vector based instead of raster (image) based, we get the option of using the Edit Layout Lines tool, we get usable snaps in layout (especially handy for positioning views and for placing CAD patches), and we get to use Pattern Line Defaults. In my opinion Plot Lines win 90% of the head to head comparison battles. They do have 2 downsides though....They take longer to generate/update, and they must be updated manually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said: and they must be updated manually. For me, this is a good thing. I may need to make a change to a completed set that doesn't affect some elevation views so I don't want them to update and then have to redo the cleanup of errant lines. This is really only for lines that need to be deleted because I use CAD lines for lines that need to be added (they won't disappear after a drawing update). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, robdyck said: For me, this is a good thing. I may need to make a change to a completed set that doesn't affect some elevation views so I don't want them to update and then have to redo the cleanup of errant lines. This is really only for lines that need to be deleted because I use CAD lines for lines that need to be added (they won't disappear after a drawing update). I feel the same way. Side note though... One thing I would suggest you think about doing is using a filled polyline with the invisible line style for some of those instances where you have to delete errant lines. Sometimes you can just cover them instead of delete them so that next time you update the view, they don’t need to be deleted again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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