CAD block layers in library

[robdyck]

Is it just me or can we not control the layer of a CAD block that is added to the library? I'll make a CAD block, then set its layer, then add it to the library. When I place it from the library, it is always on the 'default cad layer'. Why won't it retain the layer that I set? Does this need to be added to suggestions?

[Chopsaw]

Pretty sure it has been suggested before but has not likely reached the request threshold to get fixed.  Really handy if you are not exploding the cad block.

[robdyck]

1 hour ago, Chopsaw said:

Pretty sure it has been suggested before but has not likely reached the request threshold to get fixed.

So what your sayin' is one more suggestion will put it over the top, right?

[Alaskan_Son]

Just to clarify here.  When you pull a CAD Block from the library, it doesn't necessarily get placed onto the "CAD,  Default" layer.  It gets placed onto the Current CAD Layer --whatever that layer might be at the time. 

 

Also, the sub objects still retain their original layers.

[robdyck]

33 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Also, the sub objects still retain their original layers.

But you have to explode the block to 'reactivate' those layers. The reason I ask is that I essentially use my current cad layer a a refernce set....It doesn't show in printed sets. Obviously I don't want to:

• assign the layers for the same CAD blocks over and over
• continually explode a block that I want as a block
• continually change the current CAD layer just to draw some reference lines

[Alaskan_Son]

1 minute ago, robdyck said:

But you have to explode the block to 'reactivate' those layers. The reason I ask is that I essentially use my current cad layer a a refernce set....It doesn't show in printed sets. Obviously I don't want to:

• assign the layers for the same CAD blocks over and over
• continually explode a block that I want as a block 
• continually change the current CAD layer just to draw some reference lines 

 

I wasn't really trying to suggest anything.  Only clarifying the behavior.  Here's a little trick that might help you out though.  Before adding your block to the library, block it a second time.  When dropping the block back into your plan, exploding it will result in a block the retains the desired layer.

[Chopsaw]

55 minutes ago, robdyck said:

2 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

Pretty sure it has been suggested before but has not likely reached the request threshold to get fixed.

So what your sayin' is one more suggestion will put it over the top, right?

 

You can always hope but it sometimes seems that no matter how broken something is the threshold is way too high.

 

I suppose the inconsistency is that if you deliberately set the layer to not be default why would it save on the default layer ?

 

If it is something you are not worried about of course it should go on the default layer.

 

I suppose double blocking could be used if you definitely will always be using the item as a block and can remember to only unblock it once, but it just seems a bit too much like ACad to me.

[robdyck]

5 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

 will always be using the item as a block and can remember to only unblock it once, but it just seems a bit too much like ACad to me.

A simple example is a roof pitch marker that I'll place in section and elevation views.  I have a library of these items and for example, I want them on my text layer, because I use my current cad layer for reference lines. So for that simple item, which should just be a simple one-step procedure...grab from the library and drop it in...I have to add at least one step.

And I don't want to explode it, although that's what I end up doing, because it's easier to grab and copy if it's a block as opposed to a group of items. Its also easier to replace across the entire plan should the client decide to go with a 5:12 roof instead of the 6:12 that is currently shown (as an example).

[Chopsaw]

The other option I was thinking about would be to have the option of auto explode designated library cad blocks but that only solves some of the issues and may actually create  more for some users.

[Alaskan_Son]

 

1 hour ago, robdyck said:

And I don't want to explode it, although that's what I end up doing, because it's easier to grab and copy if it's a block as opposed to a group of items.

 

Note that I said to block it a second time.  After exploding, you'll still be left with a single CAD Block except that it will be on your intended layer.  This is a tricky one to solve with any little software changes because its really easy to see both sides...why a person would want the block placed onto the Current CAD Layer and why a person might want the block placed onto it's original layer. 

[robdyck]

Just now, Alaskan_Son said:

 

 

Note that I said to block it a second time.  After exploding, you'll still be left with a single CAD Block except that it will be on your intended layer.  This is a tricky one to solve with any little software changes because its really easy to see both sides...why a person would want the block placed onto the Current CAD Layer and why a person might want the block placed onto it's original layer. 

Yup, I got that 2nd time trick and thanks! I like it! However, it's the 'lack of control' that bugs me. A cad block when created is defaulted to the current cad layer. Done. Mission Accomplished. But...if I assign a different layer before adding it to the library, IMO that layer should 'stick'. Isn't that the whole point of saving something to your library?

[robdyck]

@Alaskan_Son

Now I'd like to be able to edit my pitch markers IN the library, instead of having to replace them with this double block trick. And just to be sure my layers stick, I might one up you and triple block them! Booyah!

[Alaskan_Son]

6 minutes ago, robdyck said:

Yup, I got that 2nd time trick and thanks! I like it! However, it's the 'lack of control' that bugs me. A cad block when created is defaulted to the current cad layer. Done. Mission Accomplished. But...if I assign a different layer before adding it to the library, IMO that layer should 'stick'. Isn't that the whole point of saving something to your library?

Yes and no.  There are plenty of generic CAD Blocks that could be argued are far more effectively just placed onto the Current CAD Layer.  I guess maybe a new preference/toggle for "Place CAD Blocks onto Original Layer" (or similar) would do the trick.  We could all just leave it to what we prefer and toggle to the other as necessary. 

[Alaskan_Son]

8 minutes ago, robdyck said:

And just to be sure my layers stick, I might one up you and triple block them! Booyah!

Haha!  We could play this game all day long!

[robdyck]

1 minute ago, Alaskan_Son said:

There are plenty of generic CAD Blocks that could be argued are far more effectively just placed onto the Current CAD Layer.

That's what I'm saying...they're already there!

[robdyck]

Just now, Alaskan_Son said:

Haha!  We could play this game all day long!

No. quadruple blocking would just be silly.

[Alaskan_Son]

8 minutes ago, robdyck said:

That's what I'm saying...they're already there!

 

Not if you got what you wanted though.  What I'm saying is that I don't agree that the layer should "stick" when storing in and pulling from the library.  I think it works really well having CAD blocks placed onto the Current CAD Layer regardless of the original layer.  It gives us a lot of control.  For example, I can create a special Room Label CAD Block that I might want to place in any one of half a dozen different Plan Views.  I can store it in the library, and when I pull from the library and drop it in the plan, it will obey the Active Defaults and get placed onto the appropriate layer for that view.

 

If the program simply used the original layer that would remove a lot of the robust control we have otherwise.  If we're picking one or the other, I think the current dynamic behavior is just a lot more valuable than the suggested static behavior. 

[robdyck]

1 minute ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Not if you got what you wanted though.  What I'm saying is that I don't agree that the layer should "stick" when storing in and pulling from the library.  I think it works really well having CAD blocks placed onto the Current CAD Layer regardless of the original layer.  It gives us a lot of control.  If the program simply used the original layer that would remove a lot of the robust control we have otherwise.  If we're picking one or the other, I think the current dynamic behavior is just a lot more valuable than the suggested static behavior. 

But Michael, I'm not suggesting a static behavior, but rather a manual override that allows my intentional control. Currently Chief is undoing the 'override', right? If I want it to stay on the current cad layer, I don't need to take any further action. But if I intentionally want it on an assigned layer, and go through the process of doing just that, why does Chief undo that as the block slips into the shelves of the library?

I'd love to know if there's a reason Chief does this, or if this is an 'unplanned' behavior...

[Alaskan_Son]

13 minutes ago, robdyck said:

I'd love to know if there's a reason Chief does this

 

I can't speak for Chief, but I believe it was absolutely intentional, and I think they made the right call.  Maybe it would help to look at some blatantly obvious examples of generic CAD blocks that could be used in any number of different views like a Break Line or a Graphic Scale.  If you drop one of those into the plan, do you really always want to get the "Blah blah layer is not displayed.  Do you want to turn on the display of this layer in the current view?" message?  The obvious answer is no.  I don't think anyone would argue that it makes a lot more sense to drop those blocks onto the Current CAD Layer, and I think there are many many other examples that are better handled that same way.  This is Chief's default behavior and again, I think it gives us options. 

 

The suggested alternative is to simply use the layer that was set when the block was placed into the library.  That would be extremely limiting and although I can see why a person would want that for some things, I for one am glad Chief doesn't work that way.  I could however put my support behind a preference/toggle for the behavior though. 

 

P.S.  You might want to re-read my last post.  I was editing it right as you posted to provide an example that you might have missed.

[robdyck]

2 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I don't think anyone would argue that it makes a lot more sense to drop those blocks onto the Current CAD Layer

I'm not either. 

 

3 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

The suggested alternative is to simply use the layer that was set when the block was placed into the library.

I haven't gotten to the suggestion part yet, Michael. I'm still complaining about the behavior I don't like! If I were to head on over to the suggestion room, a choice at the time of adding to library is exactly what I'd ask for, for CAD blocks that are NOT on the current CAD layer. I don't know if I'd want a dbx opening up each time for layer assignment...I guess the 'remember my choice' option would at least limit the frequency.

[Alaskan_Son]

5 minutes ago, robdyck said:

for CAD blocks that are NOT on the current CAD layer

 

This isn't really even a thing.  Is it possible you're confusing Current CAD Layer with the Default checkbox?  If so, those 2 things aren't actually related at all. 

[Alaskan_Son]

2 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

I suppose the inconsistency is that if you deliberately set the layer to not be default why would it save on the default layer ?

 

If it is something you are not worried about of course it should go on the default layer.

 

The Default layer is simply the default layer for any given object type.  It has nothing to do with the Current CAD Layer. 

[LevisL]

Perhaps the solution could be a setting that would be stored with the specific cad blocks in the library. When adding it to the library, we could have a radio button to choose either ‘Insert on current CAD layer’ or ‘Insert on specific layer’ with a layer chooser pull-down. 

[Alaskan_Son]

5 minutes ago, LevisL said:

Perhaps the solution could be a setting that would be stored with the specific cad blocks in the library. When adding it to the library, we could have a radio button to choose either ‘Insert on current CAD layer’ or ‘Insert on specific layer’ with a layer chooser pull-down. 

 

That would sort of work, but I think a simple on-the-fly preference/toggle would be much better.  Otherwise, any shared CAD blocks, blocks in the Core Catalog, blocks in Bonus Libraries, etc. would all be dependent on whoever set them up and there would be no way to modify without adding each one to the User Library.  A preference/toggle would solve all these inherent problems and would also address potential legacy issues IMO. 

[LevisL]

4 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

That would sort of work, but I think a simple on-the-fly preference/toggle would be much better.  Otherwise, any shared CAD blocks, blocks in the Core Catalog, blocks in Bonus Libraries, etc. would all be dependent on whoever set them up and there would be no way to modify without adding each one to the User Library.  A preference/toggle would solve all these inherent problems and would also address legacy issues IMO. 

Good point. I didn’t think of shared blocks and those in the core catalog, etc.