How to manually draw roof framing lookout?

[GeneDavis]

Can this be done?  I'm stuck.

 

Roof is trussed, which of course must be done manually.  I unchecked "retain roof framing" and built framing but Chief failed to autobuild lookouts.

 

The only framing tool I can see to use is the one for drawing rafters, and it places lookouts oriented plumb, when everyone knows lookouts are rotated to match pitch.

[Chopsaw]

Do you have any lookouts generating that you can copy ?  Or even from another plan file.  I have one in my library that is just a little quicker if not.

[GeneDavis]

I suppose I can draw a p'line solid, call it framing, and get it done that way, but I think it's a void in Chief that ought to be fixed.

 

I'll do a suggestion.

 

Edit:  No, while a single p'line solid precisely drawn in 3D space will "work," in that it will be seen in a 3D framing view, because it is not a roof framing member, it cannot be copied and placed elsewhere in that roof plane, or another plane, and behave as a true roof framing member will.

 

So, I was able to get another roof plane in my plan, one with the same pitch as the problem one, to generate a lookout, and that is all I need to be able to copy and mirror and whatever, to get them everywhere needed.

 

But I still want the ability to "draw" one in place.

[Chopsaw]

Here is an Easter present for you Gene.

 

Hope this works for now as there is a lot that chief needs to look at in the way of roof framing.

 

 

std. 2x4 lookout.calibz

 

[GeneDavis]

Thanks, Chopsaw.

[Chopsaw]

7 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

Thanks, Chopsaw.

 

Your welcome.  Did I get the Florida version correct ?   We do them the other way up here.

[GeneDavis]

I'm in FL but my jobs are in a place in NY with a 90 psf ground snow load.  With a 27 inch gable roof overhang, we'll do upright 2x6 lookouts.

[robdyck]

1 hour ago, GeneDavis said:

Can this be done?  I'm stuck.

 

Roof is trussed, which of course must be done manually.  I unchecked "retain roof framing" and built framing but Chief failed to autobuild lookouts.

 

The only framing tool I can see to use is the one for drawing rafters, and it places lookouts oriented plumb, when everyone knows lookouts are rotated to match pitch.

1. Use "Roof Blocking"

2. uncheck automatic height

3. replicate as desired

4.group select lookouts

5. check automatic height, close dbx

6. re-open dbx while selected. uncheck automatic heights.

[Chopsaw]

1 hour ago, GeneDavis said:

I'm in FL but my jobs are in a place in NY with a 90 psf ground snow load.  With a 27 inch gable roof overhang, we'll do upright 2x6 lookouts.

 

Ooops...   You may want to convert that one and resave to your library then.

 

1 hour ago, robdyck said:

"Roof Blocking"

 

Roof Blocking and Lookouts are very different Rob.  You can block a small roof overhang but lookouts provide cantilevered support in a way that blocking cannot.

 

 

[robdyck]

1 hour ago, Chopsaw said:

Roof Blocking and Lookouts are very different Rob. 

And what are polyline solids to roof framing? The suggestion was 1 method to manually draw lookouts which was the original question and I wasn't suggesting he draw them too short. Actually I wasn't making any structural suggestions, just suggesting Chief tools to use. Using "blocking" puts the lookouts on a separate layer automatically, which I kind of like (if you have a gable end wall). The roof blocking tool works fine unless you're also using a gable end truss in which case the gable end truss would 'cut' the lookout (because to Chief it is 'blocking'). If using a gable end truss, one will need to replicate an actual Chief lookout. 

 

1 hour ago, Chopsaw said:

You can block a small roof overhang but lookouts provide cantilevered support in a way that blocking cannot

You're the one with the lookout on flat. Don't get me started on framers placing lookouts flatwise instead of edgewise! Did you mean cantilevered support or saggy support? 

 

Somewhere this got sidetracked. Were we talking about methods to draw things in Chief, or how to frame an actual roof? I thought it was the former.

 

[Chopsaw]

Sorry Rob,  I had not looked at the plan file.  Gene asked for a lookout for a trussed roof.  I gave him a lookout for a trussed roof assuming the build was in Florida.  Frankly I am surprised that flat lookouts meet code in Idaho but I believe they are quite common in the south.  It was actually my company that made Chief aware that flat lookouts do not meet code in Canada and that was changed in the software. 

 

When Gene replied the job was in New York I thought I was clear that I do not use the type of lookout that I had posted for him.

 

I was talking about a theoretical cantilever and not any specific strength comparison. Personally I am more than double 90 psf so I would never build with a flat lookout unless it was engineered that way for some reason.

 

Taking a look at that plan file your suggestion would work fine.  I just did not want someone from chief glancing at this a noting that there are several good workarounds for lookouts when there really are not.

[glennw]

Have you tried letting Chief draw your lookouts automatically?

You can use a Reduced Gable End Truss (check both End Truss and Reduced Gable) and Chief will build the lookouts.

Here in Oz, we would normally use lookouts "on flat" - but sloping with the roof.

[robdyck]

9 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

I just did not want someone from chief glancing at this a noting that there are several good workarounds for lookouts when there really are not.

That is a true statement! And regardless of the lookout orientation, its worth pointing out that Chief doesn't build lookouts at the correct spacing nor does Chief 'know' where to start the layout of a lookout. So if someone is modeling framing for accuracy, the lookouts at every gable end will need the placement manually adjusted. 

If there's a Chiefer out there who knows some secret trick to get Chief to build lookouts spaced o.c. following the roof slope, and starting at the bottom of the sub-fascia, this would be a great time to share your tips!

 

[Chopsaw]

3 hours ago, robdyck said:

Chief doesn't build lookouts at the correct spacing nor does Chief 'know' where to start the layout of a lookout.

 

True, they definitely did not get that part worked out properly.  It would be great to have a workshop with some of the programmers on these issues but Chief seems to keep them hermetically sealed.