Door dimension list

[tubbsinc]

I am new to CA, long time user of 2020 and using the CA trial version to see if it fits my needs.  I placed a few cabs after setting up basic cabinet preferences - sizing, spacing etc.  Also added a couple columns in a cabinet schedule to try to get door width and heights to show, so I can produce a door cutlist (or sizes to order doors).

Right now it's not populating these columns and I didn't see an option to show drawer dims after "unhiding" all the items available in the cabinet schedule of the default schedule settings.

 

Do I need to make a custom schedule and "manage custom categories" or am I missing something?

[joey_martin]

I believe you will need to add those custom fields and input the info when you place the cabinets. 

[tubbsinc]

Thanks for the response.  I did place some cabinets and added these fields to the report though.

Was hoping this type of list could be generated from a design and not have to manually do it.

[Alaskan_Son]

18 minutes ago, solver said:

I think there is (maybe) enough info for a macro to be able to size these things.

 

There's actually not.  It can be automated to a certain extent but for accurate door and drawer panel dimensions there has to be direct user input one way or another based on the specifics of each cabinet and it's specific openings and panels.  Some of this can be sped up by creating and storing re-used cabinets and/or appropriately named panels but it's a lot of manual work no matter what you do.  If and when Chief gives us a Collection of individual openings and their panels, then it would be possible.  Not now though. 

[tubbsinc]

I appreciate the responses.  I manufacture cabinetry and produce layouts for kitchens, baths and custom pieces.  Have used 2020 for a long time but it has many quirks that I would really like to break away from.  In CA I would likely use the set of standard full overlay cabinetry, adjust these preferences and use them for 95% of my work.  With this in mind I would think what I would like to achieve should be possible in CA and would be a great time saver for me.

 

I was able to narrow it down in a material list.  This is showing the correct door/drawer sizing for each cabinet.  I suppose exporting this list it will be an excel file or similar that the dimensions could be isolated and a door/drawer list could be generated.  In the trial version I'm blocked from these functions so I can't generate any exports.

 

 

 

[Kbird1]

I think Chief's cabinets use an automated, hard coded 1/16th Gap , so you'd likely want to do some testing to see if it reports sizes as you want/expect.

 

Mark will likely have more Info for you as the resident Chief Cabinet Guru, he has many informative posts here on the Forum.

 

@MarkMc

[MarkMc]

1 hour ago, tubbsinc said:

I was able to narrow it down in a material list.  This is showing the correct door/drawer sizing for each cabinet.

Careful. Chief has it's own way of calculating those sizes and it rounds them. In the attached the sizes add up to 31-1/2" which is the height of the face of the cabinet. If reveals are included the drawers no longer fit.

That said I switched from 2020 years ago and have managed to find simple enough and adequate ways to spec custom cabinets and other casework so that it gets built to what I want.

If you are personally building the cabinets I'd think it would still help a lot. While once upon a time I built cabinets that was before the days I worked with 2020 so never tried to get that information out of it. It was because of 2020's inability to create the range of cabinetry I needed that I switched. Switching to CA was one of the best things I ever did in that regard.

When I built them I had a few simple programs I used for cut lists. If I were a manufacturer I'd be using CabinetVision or similar. At the scale I built IF I wanted more info than I could get from a CAD detail I'd be setting it up in custom Object Information Fields with macros, storing cabinets in the library (or in style palettes) and adjusting the occasional complete odd cabinet (in conjunction with a CAD detail from view-which is one feature you will want which means get the Premier version, not Interiors !!!)

[tubbsinc]

Hi Marc,

Your name looks familiar (from your info footer) like we may have crossed paths on the 2020 forums.  2020 has evolved into becoming a bigger headache for me on a consistent basis - crashing on simple to medium designs in various states, it's a resource hog, not fixing inherent issues, pathetic service.  I could go on.

Anyway, in CA what I did with a little messing around is see that if you set the gaps as "blank area" in the preferences that the dims seem to be consistent.   The door sizing wasn't correct if I left it as a "separation".  I will definitely do some testing to see how the rounding effects it.  Again I would set this up globally.  I'll have to question this when I speak to CA techs on the different versions and their abilities. 

CA seems to have a lot more detail than I need and part of my battle is to get it setup for what I really need- cab/appliance/plumb layout i.e. learning curve.  For the higher end clients especially the professional layouts and renders help a lot.   

I think I tried cab vision a few years ago and the interface was very clunky and restrictive, not to mention drawings were not so strong.  Maybe it's worth another look.

[MarkMc]

30 minutes ago, tubbsinc said:

Hi Marc,

Your name looks familiar (from your info footer) like we may have crossed paths on the 2020 forums.  2020 has evolved into becoming a bigger headache for me on a consistent basis - crashing on simple to medium designs in various states, it's a resource hog, not fixing inherent issues, pathetic service.  I could go on.

Anyway, in CA what I did with a little messing around is see that if you set the gaps as "blank area" in the preferences that the dims seem to be consistent.   The door sizing wasn't correct if I left it as a "separation".  I will definitely do some testing to see how the rounding effects it.  Again I would set this up globally.  I'll have to question this when I speak to CA techs on the different versions and their abilities. 

CA seems to have a lot more detail than I need and part of my battle is to get it setup for what I really need- cab/appliance/plumb layout i.e. learning curve.  For the higher end clients especially the professional layouts and renders help a lot.   

I think I tried cab vision a few years ago and the interface was very clunky and restrictive, not to mention drawings were not so strong.  Maybe it's worth another look.

I was on the Garys (now Kevins) 2020 forum for many years, followed it a bit after I dropped the program. It's been a while since I looked though.

If you are not a manufacture then I would not mess with Cabinet Vision.

The extra things in Chief can actually come in handy eventually. Some things like how fast and easy it is to create a basic structure can also help sell jobs, helps more on hi end jobs. What's my kitchen look like from the front door? Show the kitchen in context including adjacent rooms is like falling off a log. Stairs, ceilings, floor levels -no comparison in 2020. Create demo plans, quick work with layers, create custom symbols on the fly,...The aforementioned CAD Detail from View. When I was using 2020 I had to jump through hoops to get an editable dwg of an elevation. Piece of cake...

Set up is not all that bad, and the learning curve is better than when I started :) I've said this before-if you are doing anything other than bang em out box store kitchens or baths there is simply nothing better than Chief, not even close.

 

While I don't really update (or care about) my website here are a couple of links to old PDFs that might help deciding.

Both have a number of custom items in them. The Ridgefield job is beaded inset fro QCCI. The Manhattan job started out as just a modest kitchen but ended up spanning a number of years. First supplying drawings for the entirely at the request of the contractor (some are included there) eventually several other projects-in part because I was using Chief.

I closed the showroom a couple of years ago and now I work for designers & builders around the country-thanks to Chief. Yeah-I drank the Kool-Aid :)

[Alaskan_Son]

4 hours ago, tubbsinc said:

I was able to narrow it down in a material list.  This is showing the correct door/drawer sizing for each cabinet.  I suppose exporting this list it will be an excel file or similar that the dimensions could be isolated and a door/drawer list could be generated.  In the trial version I'm blocked from these functions so I can't generate any exports.

 

If you want to use the Material List then this definitely changes things a bit.  Also, just FYI you don't need to Export.  You can simply copy and paste directly.  Give it a shot.

[Alaskan_Son]

 

On 3/27/2020 at 10:43 AM, solver said:

I think there is (maybe) enough info for a macro to be able to size these things.

 

On 3/27/2020 at 11:05 AM, Alaskan_Son said:

There's actually not.

 

Okay.  So, just as a followup, I realized I lied.  It is possible.  As I recall, Chief wasn't reporting those panel sizes correctly last time I tried, but they seem to be reporting just fine now.

[MarkMc]

11 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

As I recall, Chief wasn't reporting those panel sizes correctly last time I tried, but they seem to be reporting just fine now.

Still has problems in both the material list and the "panels" collection from what I've seen checking earlier today.

[Alaskan_Son]

Okay, so a bit more testing and I see what's happening...at least for cabinet styles I've quickly tested...

 

• Cabinet attributes aren't properly getting refreshed unless there's a total rebuild.  Only way I can seem to force this is through a Cut/Paste of the cabinet(s) or an Undo/Redo.  Very strange and I will report.
• Panel sizes seem to be reporting perfectly accurately as long as the cabinet attributes get refreshed.

[Alaskan_Son]

3 hours ago, MarkMc said:

Careful. Chief has it's own way of calculating those sizes and it rounds them.

 

Ah, yes.  I see what you're saying.  It's always round to the nearest 1/16".  This isn't a problem with most cabinets I've tested and would be fine with most cabinets we use, but it could definitely be an issue with others.  Good catch.  Have you reported this particular issue?

[MarkMc]

4 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

  Have you reported this particular issue?

No not yet, just saw it since I don't ever use it that aspect of the ML. Everyone I've ever ordered from works from openings and/or specs like "align with" which avoids any problems. I was going to go over the panel collection again since that is worse than the ML and then send that in. It does not update at all relative to a change in the cabinet. Was wondering if for some reason ruby did not update? Only checked that in the TMM though since I don't really know how to access collection parts properly. May work on that when I get some time.

 

9 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

It's always round to the nearest 1/16".  This isn't a problem with most cabinets I've tested and would be fine with most cabinets we use,

The thing I found with the ML, the ones I posted, were set to 1/16 reveal, typical for frameless (aside from top and bottom reveals which vary) That leads to the creation of drawer heads that measure 32nds. Once rounded to 1/16ths they don't add up properly. We don't have control of overlay or specific door/drawer sizes, only reveal. I tried working with blank areas instead but checked that in the panel collection. Will check that in the ML later but I in the long run don't intend to switch to fussing with making reveals from blank areas. As I said I need openings anyway.

[tubbsinc]

2 hours ago, MarkMc said:

I was on the Garys (now Kevins) 2020 forum for many years, followed it a bit after I dropped the program. It's been a while since I looked though.

If you are not a manufacture then I would not mess with Cabinet Vision.

The extra things in Chief can actually come in handy eventually. Some things like how fast and easy it is to create a basic structure can also help sell jobs, helps more on hi end jobs. What's my kitchen look like from the front door? Show the kitchen in context including adjacent rooms is like falling off a log. Stairs, ceilings, floor levels -no comparison in 2020. Create demo plans, quick work with layers, create custom symbols on the fly,...The aforementioned CAD Detail from View. When I was using 2020 I had to jump through hoops to get an editable dwg of an elevation. Piece of cake...

Set up is not all that bad, and the learning curve is better than when I started I've said this before-if you are doing anything other than bang em out box store kitchens or baths there is simply nothing better than Chief, not even close.

 

While I don't really update (or care about) my website here are a couple of links to old PDFs that might help deciding.

Both have a number of custom items in them. The Ridgefield job is beaded inset fro QCCI. The Manhattan job started out as just a modest kitchen but ended up spanning a number of years. First supplying drawings for the entirely at the request of the contractor (some are included there) eventually several other projects-in part because I was using Chief.

I closed the showroom a couple of years ago and now I work for designers & builders around the country-thanks to Chief. Yeah-I drank the Kool-Aid

Mark,

Yea I've been on that forum and 2020 since about 05-06 and was around when Gary transitioned out so definitely have seen you on there.

While I do the occasional prefab sales, a majority of what I do is custom.  So I have my own standards and certain ways I build specialty cabs.  Don't know how much of that I can specify in CA but I'm sure I can at least represent it well in CA with workarounds if necessary.  Trying out a couple different programs like Prokitchen (don't think the customization is there, like finishing off the back of an island and finishing with doors).  CA just seems the most flexible.

For the level customers I typically have the drawings and render have become very important, so my ability to create these and do it more efficiently is my priority.

A cutlist and/or door order list would definitely help on the production side.  While I am a small shop and do a lot of it myself I would like to be able to pass different tasks off when I am very busy.  So I need a happy medium realizing that a learning curve is coming at me in some way.

Being able to do a quick basic drawing is also important.  I assume that if I go with CA and learn it in more depth I can set up templates and formatting to speed the process.

 

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

For the record, I haven't had to use door panel take-offs from Chief myself, but quite honestly I've never needed to do probably 75% of the things that I've needed to provide to various Chief clients.  In other words, I don't need it, but I figure out how to do it for others.  I've found that this practice commonly brings me to these 2 realizations:

 

A.  The reason others may not be doing it isn't because they don't want to or have no use for it.  It's simply because they haven't considered that it was actually a viable option.

B.  There are a lot of things I had never considered doing that I realize are great ideas and start to integrate into my own workflow. 

 

In this particular instance I could see this being quite handy and I would argue that 1/32" isn't going to make or break anything with almost anything we do in our normal course of business, and besides, there are steps that can pretty easily be taken to round numbers down too.

 

Anyway, with a little custom macro work, this is totally possible albeit with a couple of minor quirks...

[Alaskan_Son]

10 hours ago, MarkMc said:

The thing I found with the ML, the ones I posted, were set to 1/16 reveal, typical for frameless

I'm kinda curious.  Do you actually order very many cabinets with a reveal that small?  We always have those built to 1/8"+.  1/16" is way too small IMO.  The slightest tweaking of anything and panels are bumping into each other.  Not very functional in my personal opinion and experience.  

[MarkMc]

7 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I'm kinda curious.  Do you actually order very many cabinets with a reveal that small?  We always have those built to 1/8"+.  1/16" is way too small IMO.  The slightest tweaking of anything and panels are bumping into each other.  Not very functional in my personal opinion and experience.  

Every supplier of frameless cabinets I've ever worked with uses 1/16" reveal on each side.

Vertical reveals vary by maker AND on a single cabinet from 0" at the bottom up to 1/4" at the top.

Chief does not allow for a reasonable method to make varied reveals on a cabinet so pick one. The OOB templates for frameless uses 1/16th. But let's go ahead and switch to 1/8" so that the vertical reveals are better That will make the drawer heights correct IF all vertical reveals are to be the same (never have seen that but what the hey). Now the reveal between cabinets is 1/4" the elevations and renderings are wrong and the door widths are too.

For inset cabinets Chiefs clearance is 1/16th with no way to alter it. That will be incorrect for most makers. (at least don't ask your local cabinet maker to hold a clearance of 1/16 on insets)

A built in increase in size per "some" items of 1/32 is not acceptible to me, particularly on frameless cabinets. As you point out the slightest tweak or other error...no need to have one built in-not very functional.

 

I order cabinets by overall size, specify openings & alignments, and include accurate drawings. I would never specify door or drawer head sizes specifically. Fit and tolerances are the responsibility of the maker, always. That's how it was when I made things.

IF I were building them myself and needed sizes I'd determine them the way I did when I built cabinets. Without automation, fast enough at the scale of work and 100% accurate.

[tubbsinc]

14 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

For the record, I haven't had to use door panel take-offs from Chief myself, but quite honestly I've never needed to do probably 75% of the things that I've needed to provide to various Chief clients.  In other words, I don't need it, but I figure out how to do it for others.

It is appreciated... I'm just looking for the ability to do it through CA if possible, coming in new not knowing the functions or what type of report or lists to use to try to accomplish it.

 

14 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

A.  The reason others may not be doing it isn't because they don't want to or have no use for it.  It's simply because they haven't considered that it was actually a viable option.

There are many features in CA I may never use.  But there is a lot that I can add to what I already provide that will be of value to my clients (end users and builders).  Some of the other software I have been looking at is very limited and/or the functionality is questionable or just pathetic.

 

8 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I'm kinda curious.  Do you actually order very many cabinets with a reveal that small?  We always have those built to 1/8"+.  1/16" is way too small IMO.  The slightest tweaking of anything and panels are bumping into each other.  Not very functional in my personal opinion and experience.

Speaking for my experience, in my market in S FL a lot of what we do is full overlay and frameless.  No center stile because they want big pullouts or open storage, so tighter gaps between double doors.

Was the chart you made directly from CA.

[tubbsinc]

Mark,

The examples in CA you shared with me are awesome, a level that I could never do in 2020 because of all its quirks.  Most of the capability is there but the crashing, workarounds, disappearing dimensions when trying to make anything even remotely complex is just frustrating. 

 

15 minutes ago, MarkMc said:

I order cabinets by overall size, specify openings & alignments, and include accurate drawings. I would never specify door or drawer head sizes specifically. Fit and tolerances are the responsibility of the maker, always. That's how it was when I made things.

 

Anything I would generate with door sizing would be exclusive for me.  This is in my quest to simplify some of the processes I have to do on a regular basis.

Again, its a balancing act.  Ideally I want to generate quality drawings/renders with reasonable speed and create accurate cutlists for everything because I design AND manufacture.  I figure CA probably doesn't do it all but if I can get *some* accurate reports it appears to be a good option for me.

 

[MarkMc]

So I when I built cabinets it was a one man shop most of the time, so volume was small. I could do sizes for a kitchen in well under an hour. (When I built other things there was a fluctuating staff so I was responsible for setting all dimensions, often to more severe tolerance than cabinets.)

IF running a shop with say half a dozen workers and one person responsible for dimensions which is best practice. IF the volume warranted some automation to get the size of face items then I'd -

• use a schedule
• have an OIP filed for top drawer height set in the default
• note any cabinet that was off with an S prefix
• then set up a spreadsheet template using lookup arrays

That would give completely accurate sizes for 90-95% of cabinets and indicate that any cabinet designated Special needed to be adjusted. You already need to enter appliance opening sizes manually so add those to an OIP field when you look them up. A lookup array will be far easier to manage and create than what would need to be done using Ruby unless ALL your reveals are identical. Now learning how to do that in a spreadsheet can be a bit daunting but not nearly as daunting as Ruby IMO having done both.

There is another problem with the ML. When doing hi-end cabinets, and you get around to hacking them to be correct in 3D, you will end up with "doors" that are not doors since that is the most useful item to hack a cabinet with.

[MarkMc]

3 minutes ago, tubbsinc said:

accurate cutlists for everything because I design AND manufacture

The system I describe above would be based on cabinet label, height and width-also included in the schedule. The top row height is just for safety/reference though it could likely be used in the look up. Copy the schedule, paste into the the template-associated cells would do the look up would read in adjacent cells the sizes. It could even give you rails and stiles. Specials would have to be edited and the lookup could be set to specify that in the adjacent cells based on the S in the label.

Until Chief gives us an attribute/collection for opening sizes in Ruby I would not trust anything other than manual take off. But as I said learning and setting up lookup arrays to begin with takes a lot of time unless you are already familiar with them so only worth the effort if sufficient volume is required.

 

There is also the poor man's version of Cabinet Vision- eCabinet. I believe a few folks on here use that.in conjunction with Chief though I've never tried it. Back when I did this there were a couple of free or really cheap simple cut list applets out there.

[Alaskan_Son]

4 hours ago, tubbsinc said:

Was the chart you made directly from CA.

Yes.  Completely automated using a schedule and custom macros.  

[Alaskan_Son]

On 3/28/2020 at 9:53 AM, Alaskan_Son said:

Cabinet attributes aren't properly getting refreshed unless there's a total rebuild.  Only way I can seem to force this is through a Cut/Paste of the cabinet(s) or an Undo/Redo.  Very strange and I will report.

 

This was fixed in the latest update.  Thanks for the quick fix Chief!!