Evolution

Different Ceilings and Heights in same plan

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I read several posts that seemed might have the answer I need, however; the results I am getting aren't what I need. I finally got the last changes from the Client for the non-profit I've been working on and preparing Code Submittal drawings. The clients ID has suggested three different ceiling arrangements, in different rooms. When I set up the original ceiling height, default, I set the basic CH as 120". In an earlier post regarding modeling the lay-in ceiling Mark Mc and Steve Nestor helped me a lot. I did my dropped ceiling and have everything looking pretty good, but, the ID wants a ceiling cloud in the large office space at +/- 16" lower than the (fire rated) ceiling above it. Also wants a lowered ceiling in a couple of spaces ( I know how to do those by editing the ceiling structure height etc).  My issue is when I changed the ceiling in the larger office, to a ceiling cloud, (using a room poly line, did a concentric move to bring it in, converted the Poly line to the ceiling grid T-mold. Check flat ceiling over this room. Did the ceiling material as the 2X2 tile). When I Did a full camera it almost looked perfect. However; when I did a full camera in some of the other rooms, the ceiling had changed in each of the rooms, not just the large office. I can do an undo and fix it, but I can't figure out how to do different ceilings in specific rooms without this happening again.  Do I need to create a layer (for each room) and set different ceiling heights using those layers? 

 

 

 

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I had to Google "ceiling cloud", and it looks like a panel that is suspended below the ceiling. Is what you are trying to model different?

 

 

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33 minutes ago, solver said:

I had to Google "ceiling cloud", and it looks like a panel that is suspended below the ceiling. Is what you are trying to model different?

 

 

Correct Eric. In this case it's a rectangle equally spaced off all four walls. Allows the FR ceiling etc., to be exposed above (why she wants it I don't have a clue) and all exposed above to be painted flat black.  

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For these cases you need to adjust the "Ceiling Finish" in the Room dbx.  Essentially add layers representing air gap and framing above the drywall.  This will lower the finished ceiling height by the total thickness of the added layers.

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Then why not model it like it is? It's just something hanging from the ceiling, not part of the ceiling.

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1 minute ago, Joe_Carrick said:

For these cases you need to adjust the "Ceiling Finish" in the Room dbx.  Essentially add layers representing air gap and framing above the drywall.  This will lower the finished ceiling height by the total thickness of the added layers.

Joe, I know how to do that, the problem is, changing to the "ceiling cloud" then changes all the other rooms (essentially creating another ceiling below the drip ceiling I have already modeled for those particular rooms). I had previously set my default ceiling to 10' (which is actually the height of the fire rated hard ceiling nailed to the bottom of the floor "I"-joist above. Unless I misread something, once you set the default ceiling for the plan, you can change the individual room ceiling heights without affecting the others? 

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2 minutes ago, solver said:

Then why not model it like it is? It's just something hanging from the ceiling, not part of the ceiling.

Eric, that is exactly what I did.  In the full camera of that room it looks just like it should. But, for some reason all the ceiling (set to 9') have now all dropped down to the 8'-6" ceiling height of this room, which is NOT what I want.  Remember early on, I set the default for all rooms to 10'. I added the lay-in acoustical ceiling and grid at 9'as you and Steve helped with.

The only issue I had then was getting the lighting to line up with the grid. All I did to add the ceiling cloud was to adjust the existing dropped ceiling height to the 8'-6", I pulled all sides in to equal tiles leaving out the borders and in plan it looks fine. But the other rooms ceiling have now dropped to 8'-6" from the 9'. That also cause the grid to go all crazy. If I adjust the grid and ceiling in the offending rooms back to the 9' then the ceiling cloud goes back to 9' (screwing up the grid in that room). I've basically solved the issue by adding notes in my reflected ceiling plan to show the lower height, and exposed border areas. Its not that important I guess, I was trying to figure out why it was happening? I'll move on.

RCP.png

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Why are you changing ceiling heights at all? The ceiling cloud is like a light fixture -- it just hangs from the ceiling.

 

Is there a floor above?

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2 hours ago, solver said:

Why are you changing ceiling heights at all? The ceiling cloud is like a light fixture -- it just hangs from the ceiling.

 

Is there a floor above?

 

Thankfully Eric let me know what a Ceiling Cloud is  :) 

 

and after reading the thread, I agree with him on making it in CA, why not use a Polyline Solid or even a Soffit set at 8'6" to the bottom ? and you are done...

 

changing the 9' Ceiling color to Flat Black shouldn't be an issue is it ?

 

M.

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2 hours ago, solver said:

Why are you changing ceiling heights at all? The ceiling cloud is like a light fixture -- it just hangs from the ceiling.

 

Is there a floor above?

Eric, Why? I have to include details for Code review. Because this ceiling is below a Fire Rated Ceiling, and because we are in a Seismic zone.

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Just had to add dropped ceiling to a couple rooms in a basement apartment that the client wanted 12" between grid and floor system above. made my ceiling with the ceiling tile and added 12" air gap over and it works . I wood think would work in your case also. It is a room by room done in structure DBX for each room, Hope this is what you are after.

 

Have a great day,Ken

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11 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Thankfully Eric let me know what a Ceiling Cloud is  :) 

 

and after reading the thread, I agree with him on making it in CA, why not use a Polyline Solid or even a Soffit set at 8'6" to the bottom ? and you are done...

 

changing the 9' Ceiling color to Flat Black shouldn't be an issue is it ?

 

M.

Mick, If I can make the PS look like lay in ceiling with 2X2 grid? I can probably model a 2X2 light from a solid as well, for my Lighting plan? If code comments on the ceiling plan I'm submitting then I'll have to back up and punt. For the time being I'll just move.

 

I think all the helpers are missing the real issue, changing the ceiling height for the one room with the ceiling cloud, changes the ceiling height in all rooms. So: I think the answer is going back be sure I have the default set for 10' and not do the lower ceiling in the default but do that individually for each room.

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7 minutes ago, NRST8TRKR said:

Just had to add dropped ceiling to a couple rooms in a basement apartment that the client wanted 12" between grid and floor system above. made my ceiling with the ceiling tile and added 12" air gap over and it works . I wood think would work in your case also. It is a room by room done in structure DBX for each room, Hope this is what you are after.

 

Have a great day,Ken

Thanks Ken, that is exactly what I've done. That isn't the issue at all.  When I change the one room to have the lower, ceiling cloud, it forces the lower height in all my rooms, and when I pull details for construction / code review drawings the grid is all screwed up.   So I just reset to default and for now I'll just handle it with notes (as I've already done) in the reflected ceiling plan. I don't have time now to go back and keep working on figuring out a fix, but I'm pretty sure as you say, I'll set my default for the hard ceiling at 10' then go into in room DBX and set the lowered ceiling heights individually, that should fix it.

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If you lower the Ceiling Default it lowers it for the Whole Floor not for the Room , you need to do that per Room as Ken mentioned.

 

Since the Ceiling Cloud doesn't touch any of the Walls in the Room , if you need "structure" for Details , try a Ceiling Plane at 0° pitch , as it can be Framed etc.

 

Shelf Ceiling for that one Room may work to but it sounds like it is supposed to look like it is "floating"

 

A P.Solid or a Soffit should accept any material you want them too including a Ceiling Tile but a ceiling plane may work better as noted above...

 

M.

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23 hours ago, Evolution said:

Joe, I know how to do that, the problem is, changing to the "ceiling cloud" then changes all the other rooms (essentially creating another ceiling below the drip ceiling I have already modeled for those particular rooms). I had previously set my default ceiling to 10' (which is actually the height of the fire rated hard ceiling nailed to the bottom of the floor "I"-joist above. Unless I misread something, once you set the default ceiling for the plan, you can change the individual room ceiling heights without affecting the others? 

 

Bob...this is just a quick idea...but, I created the cloud ceiling using invisible walls to make small rooms and then set the ceiling in each room to be a shelf ceiling.  The black ceiling is just a thin layer added to the room ceiling layer...and the black on the walls above was created by using "pony walls".  You could also use a very thin molding to add the black paint to the walls above the cloud ceiling.  Just an idea.  

 

Someone smarter than me will have to clarify...but, if you use a ceiling plane under a room ceiling...I believe the lower "cloud" ceiling plane will delete/replace the room ceiling in that area...so, not sure using a ceiling plane will work.  Maybe the plane can be manipulated in the structure panel to work...I haven't got time to try this right now. 

 

Plan attached so you can see what i did.  Good luck.  Bob's Cloud Drop Ceiling.plan

 

2019-09-18_10-16-59.thumb.png.f8a05cecad8b3f91f733a8b2a072dcd9.png  2019-09-18_10-17-20.thumb.png.08225c12155ae7a15715b9aa9a0a4a80.png

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59 minutes ago, SNestor said:

 

Bob...this is just a quick idea...but, I created the cloud ceiling using invisible walls to make small rooms and then set the ceiling in each room to be a shelf ceiling.  The black ceiling is just a thin layer added to the room ceiling layer...and the black on the walls above was created by using "pony walls".  You could also use a very thin molding to add the black paint to the walls above the cloud ceiling.  Just an idea.  

 

Someone smarter than me will have to clarify...but, if you use a ceiling plane under a room ceiling...I believe the lower "cloud" ceiling plane will delete/replace the room ceiling in that area...so, not sure using a ceiling plane will work.  Maybe the plane can be manipulated in the structure panel to work...I haven't got time to try this right now. 

 

Plan attached so you can see what i did.  Good luck.  Bob's Cloud Drop Ceiling.plan

 

2019-09-18_10-16-59.thumb.png.f8a05cecad8b3f91f733a8b2a072dcd9.png  2019-09-18_10-17-20.thumb.png.08225c12155ae7a15715b9aa9a0a4a80.png

Thanks Steve! Don't know how long it took you do this, but it is more like what I'm after. I've completed my construction dwgs and sending them over to Code.  If I get any comments back about details for the Ceiling cloud I'll stop everything else and work on it.  Don't take any more time out of your busy schedule (unless you just want the challenge :)). Again my real issue is when I change the ceiling height in this one room, for some reason it changed all the CH's in other rooms.  I went back and checked my previous default ceiling height and that hadn't changed from the 10' so I can't figure out why they keep changing.  I'm not changing the  DCH, I was attempting to change it in the one room's dbx.

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