Chrisb222

Invisible Walls Not Invisible?

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Hi, I'm often frustrated with invisible walls that have a solid fill I can't turn off. I also often have Room Divider walls that jump from zero to 3-1/2" thickness for no apparent reason. This usually happens when I create a stairway and need to use an invisible wall at the entrance to the stairs. Often the line defining the top end off the stairs is covered by the invisible wall, even when I turn off the Invisible Wall layer. Changing Fill to "None" in the Wall Type Spec DBX didn't help, and neither did changing the fill to Transparent. Why can I still see a white solid fill on a wall that is on a layer that's turned off?? I've worked around it before by using a zero thickness wall but that doesn't always work as the walls will usually jump to 3-1/2" thickness without warning, and it just seems wrong that the fill is there when the invisible wall layer is turned off.

 

In the case today I need to divide a turned stairway into two rooms so I can create two different ceilings over the stairway, i.e. the stairway is an "L" shape and half the opening has a vaulted ceiling and half has flat ceiling. I got the ceiling to work fine, but the invisible "Room Divider" wall that I used to split the Open Below rooms keeps jumping up to 3-1/2" thick, and it has a solid white fill that obscures some of the stairway lines. When I do finally say the proper curse words, hold may mouth just right, and force the divider to zero thickness, it wrecks the ceiling and attic wall alignment in the room, and also messed up the wall intersections (see pics).

 

I didn't post the plan because at this point the stairway is a mess, I just have some basic questions -- should I be able to make an invisible 3-1/2" thick wall transparent so that lines underneath show in plan view? Why do zero thickness walls change to 3-1/2" thick? Is this something we just have to deal with or am I missing something obvious??

Thanks

 

CA X9 Premier

Mac OSX

 

 

stairs1.thumb.png.6b0416e153dc80778f5e2dd2f2016841.png

 

stairs2.thumb.png.4b41a848e95ec173d329e04f90769fe9.png

 

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Have you tried just turning off, visually by way of Display Options, the Wall, Invisible layer? "Invisible" merely means invisible in camera views, in plan view you can turn off the visible evidence of invisible walls.

 

DJP

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You should post the plan, at a minimum, cut out the area with the stairs and post it.

 

I don't deal with stairs much, but have never seen the display problems you are having.

 

Thin Room Divider walls jump to 3-1/2" when the ceiling height changes. The program wants a full width wall for framing.

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1 hour ago, DavidJPotter said:

Have you tried just turning off, visually by way of Display Options, the Wall, Invisible layer?

 

Yes, I only turn on invisible walls when I need to see them, that layer is always off otherwise. The solid white fill remains even with the layer off.

 

58 minutes ago, solver said:

You should post the plan, at a minimum, cut out the area with the stairs and post it.

 

I don't deal with stairs much, but have never seen the display problems you are having.

 

Thin Room Divider walls jump to 3-1/2" when the ceiling height changes. The program wants a full width wall for framing.

 

Here's a simple plan that shows the issue. Even if you turn off Invisible Walls, the invisible wall covers the line that indicates the top of the stairs. That's using a new Wall Type with "None" selected as Fill Style. Moving the wall so the stairs show completely changes the desired location of the ends of the railings.

 

That invisible wall was a zero-thickness room divider until I made the stairway "Open Below" then it jumped to 3-1/2" thick.

stairway.plan

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I copied your stair, used the Create Stairwell tool, then replaced the end railing that was generated with my room divider.

 

stairway (eric).zip

 

 

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8 minutes ago, solver said:

I copied your stair, used the Create Stairwell tool, then replaced the end railing that was generated with my room divider.

 

stairway (eric).zip

 

Okay, I was able to recreate that process and it worked for simple stairs. I guess I need to stop building stairways manually. Even worked for the "L" shaped stairway using Room Divider to split the stairway... until I made one half of the split a vaulted ceiling. Then the divider jumped to 3-1/2" and has white fill covering part of the stair drawing.

 

Besides, I'm still wondering why an invisible wall, with "Fill" set to "None" and invisible wall layer off, has a white fill in the first place...

 

See attach. Thanks.

stairway2.plan

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1 hour ago, Chrisb222 said:

Besides, I'm still wondering why an invisible wall, with "Fill" set to "None" and invisible wall layer off, has a white fill in the first place...

 

No answer from me on this. Why not send in to Chief and see what they say.

 

You can do this without using the invisible walls by using ceiling planes and drawing in you own attic wall.

 

stairway2 (eric).zip

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6 minutes ago, solver said:

You can do this without using the invisible walls by using ceiling planes and drawing in you own attic wall.

 

stairway2 (eric).zip

 

Got it, yes that "solved" all of the issues. You like puzzles, don't you? :P Thanks for your work on this Eric. :D

 

 

7 minutes ago, solver said:

No answer from me on this. Why not send in to Chief and see what they say.

 

Thanks, I will do this and report their answer, if any, in this thread.

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2 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

Okay, I was able to recreate that process and it worked for simple stairs. I guess I need to stop building stairways manually. Even worked for the "L" shaped stairway using Room Divider to split the stairway... until I made one half of the split a vaulted ceiling. Then the divider jumped to 3-1/2" and has white fill covering part of the stair drawing.

 

Besides, I'm still wondering why an invisible wall, with "Fill" set to "None" and invisible wall layer off, has a white fill in the first place...

 

See attach. Thanks.

stairway2.plan

 

You can also do something like this...

stairway2 mod.plan

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2 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

Got it, yes that "solved" all of the issues. You like puzzles, don't you? :P Thanks for your work on this Eric. :D

 

 

 

Thanks, I will do this and report their answer, if any, in this thread.

 

 

Did you try setting the fill to Solid White BUT set the transparency to 100% instead of turning it OFF ?

 

and / or moving the Drawing Group Order?

 

M.

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23 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Did you try setting the fill to Solid White BUT set the transparency to 100% instead of turning it OFF ?

 

Its not the wall fill that is this problem.  Its the actual floor or room fill. 

 

From the first example plan:

5a53e4c1ca0db_Stairs1.thumb.jpg.453f8b4a40c36ce4162213902f96b081.jpg5a53e4c3e3964_Stairs2.thumb.jpg.4d36fdef6a6c4c2a7b0d92628d34cec0.jpg5a53e4c2a369f_Stairs3.thumb.jpg.1261ee8ed3ec5de6cabc86db27fc98db.jpg

 

From the second example plan:

5a53e4e2c7dc1_Stairs4.thumb.jpg.668dd7976bf3e2d811925ffec3cc0551.jpg5a53e4e20e4f8_Stairs5.thumb.jpg.f217d5df4f53bccea80932a1b3b4ddff.jpg5a53e4e11b958_Stairs6.thumb.jpg.d8b851794294e46f4ca7cac4b3b5c61d.jpg

 

In other words, its not the wall, its what the wall is DOING.  Change the wall to no-room definition or make it at or near zero inches thick and the "fill" goes away.  Actually, in the first example, simply dragging the invisible wall a few inches further would also fix the fill problem as well as the much larger functional problem that existed with that extra small top tread.

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14 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

and / or moving the Drawing Group Order?

 

Had that idea this morning while laying in bed trying to not wake up yet. :P That probably would fix it, but I'm heading out to set trusses in the sleet... :o

 

14 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Actually, in the first example, simply dragging the invisible wall a few inches further would also fix the fill problem as well as the much larger functional problem that existed with that extra small top tread.

 

Yeah, that stairway was not ready for prime time. I made it quickly to illustrate my issue with the invisible wall covering the stair drawing. Pulling the 3-1/2" wall away to expose the stairs also pulls the railing out which may not be the desired location for the railing. Zero thickness wall fixes that but is not always cooperative.

 

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

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9 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

 

Had that idea this morning while laying in bed trying to not wake up yet. :P That probably would fix it, but I'm heading out to set trusses in the sleet... :o

 

Call a Safety Day :)

 

Yeah, that stairway was not ready for prime time. I made it quickly to illustrate my issue with the invisible wall covering the stair drawing. Pulling the 3-1/2" wall away to expose the stairs also pulls the railing out which may not be the desired location for the railing. Zero thickness wall fixes that but is not always cooperative.

 

It is strange cos when I looked at the plan the Fill wasn't obscuring the Grid like it normally does , so it was not apparent at 1st what the issue was

 

 

M.

 

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15 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

Call a Safety Day :)

 

Sun eventually came out and it was a good set, went until dark. But good advice, thanks.:)

 

 

15 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

It is strange cos when I looked at the plan the Fill wasn't obscuring the Grid like it normally does , so it was not apparent at 1st what the issue was

 

The invisible wall fill isn't covering the grid on my end either, which is odd... it would cover the stair drawing but not the grid...???

 

Also, I tried raising the drawing group of the stairs, and also lowering the drawing group of the invisible wall, but it didn't help, I guess because the invisible wall is on Floor 1 and the stairs are on floor 0...

 

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Just got the response from TS, the wall is not covering the stairs, the wall is separating the two "Open Below" spaces which reveal the stairs beneath. The wall is not part of the opening, so the stairs aren't visible where the wall is. I'll use some of the excellent advice in this thread to resolve the problem.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

Quote

Hello,
Looking at your plan, I found the invisible wall itself is not what is covering the staircase. Rather, the staircase located on your first floor will only display on the second floor underneath the open below room. The invisible wall is not covering the stairs, but rather, defining the perimeter of the open below room which controls what of the staircase can be displayed on the second floor.
I hope this information is helpful,

Alex Parenti
Chief Architect Technical Support

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