TheKitchenAbode Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Just a few brief comments related to the Environment control/setting. The primary purpose of this is to provide a means to provide additional control over exterior lighting conditions. With only the sun active the exterior shadows will be highly defined representing the look of a bright sunny day. This however would be incorrect if you wish to create a cloudy day exterior scene or maybe and early morning/late evening scene. Activating the Environment light provides additional light that will soften those shadows. If you shoot an exterior camera view when adjusting the environment lighting you will clearly see this effect. You will also notice that the overall exterior brightness will be the direct sun brightness plus the additional environment light, as you crank up the environment light you can easily create an overly bright exterior, this needs to be countered by reducing the direct sun light intensity to obtain the right shadow depth balance and overall exterior brightness. Once this has been achieved then the interior is what it is as far as exterior light contribution. If the interior ambient needs to be cranked up then other lighting methods or settings need to be used other than the environment and direct sun. Following this strategy in combination with ensuring you have a roof and foundation with a floor in your model will effectively eliminate any light bleed issues related to the direct sun and/or environment light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 BTW, We have environment light because Chief does not use HDRI yet, instead, we are given 3 options to choose from: Sky, Color, and Backdrop image. Among the 3, the most practical to use for daytime interior and exterior scenes is Sky or a backdrop image as they can mimic HDRI environment light. To illustrate: Without Env Light With Env Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Another example of environment light using HDRI in Corona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_Gavin Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 That certainly shows the benefit of environmental light! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 15 hours ago, Chiefer said: BTW, We have environment light because Chief does not use HDRI yet, instead, we are given 3 options to choose from: Sky, Color, and Backdrop image. Among the 3, the most practical to use for daytime interior and exterior scenes is Sky or a backdrop image as they can mimic HDRI environment light. To illustrate: Without Env Light With Env Light Nice example of the effect that can be achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4UBLD Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) Hi All, [Edit: When I posted the comment below, I did not realize that there was a point in the thread where it digressed somewhat onto the topic of Environment Light. My comment below pertains directly to the phenomenon of light "bleed-thru," which was the topic that was introduced at the start of this thread. I just didnt wan to appear "off-topic." Thanks.] Also experiencing this issue (see first image). Contacted Support (SSA). Told me to put a roof on the plan, so I did. Helped quite a bit (see second image), but still have similar light "bleed-thru," but to a lesser degree. Let Support know this and they referred to this thread and asked if I was experiencing a phenomenon that looks similar. I confirmed and attached these same images. Now, having read this thread, I was following Jintu and totally on board and ready to go make the adjustment to Ambient Occlusion; then I saw Graham's post. Their results each look quite acceptable. So now I'm more confused regarding what to tweak. I will see what Support has to say tomorrow and report back. Edited September 27, 2017 by B4UBLD Clarification of topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 6 hours ago, B4UBLD said: Hi All, [Edit: When I posted the comment below, I did not realize that there was a point in the thread where it digressed somewhat onto the topic of Environment Light. My comment below pertains directly to the phenomenon of light "bleed-thru," which was the topic that was introduced at the start of this thread. I just didnt wan to appear "off-topic." Thanks.] Also experiencing this issue (see first image). Contacted Support (SSA). Told me to put a roof on the plan, so I did. Helped quite a bit (see second image), but still have similar light "bleed-thru," but to a lesser degree. Let Support know this and they referred to this thread and asked if I was experiencing a phenomenon that looks similar. I confirmed and attached these same images. Now, having read this thread, I was following Jintu and totally on board and ready to go make the adjustment to Ambient Occlusion; then I saw Graham's post. Their results each look quite acceptable. So now I'm more confused regarding what to tweak. I will see what Support has to say tomorrow and report back. Light bleed, such as what you are experiencing, is the result of several factors. The bleeding light comes from two sources, the sun light and the environmental light and will be exaggerated if your model does not have a roof or a foundation with a floor. Even with a roof and foundation with a floor you can still introduce light bleed if the sunlight and environmental light are set at too high of an intensity. Looking at your Ray Trace it appears that you have the sunlight set fairly high as the exterior as it appears through the windows seems unnaturally bright. I would most likely reduce the sunlight intensity a bit and if you are using the environmental light I would also reduce it. This is just my opinion but for interiors I really do not see much benefit in using the environmental light, it's primary purpose from what I can deduce is to allow one to control the darkness of exterior shadows created by the direct sunlight. If you have a brightly lit interior then the effect of this is on the interior is barely noticeable. I personally feel that Ray Trace can produce fairly good renderings given it's inherent limitations but in order to do so one needs to work within these limitations and not expect or attempt to push this engine beyond it's designed parameters. For example, attempting to create those overexposed exterior window views so often seen is not really in the realm of Ray Trace. Ray Trace is not really designed for special effects, if this is what you want then you will need to take your Ray Trace and post process it in say Photoshop or use another rendering engine that has these capabilities baked in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4UBLD Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 On 9/27/2017 at 7:07 AM, TheKitchenAbode said: Light bleed, such as what you are experiencing, is the result of several factors. The bleeding light comes from two sources, the sun light and the environmental light and will be exaggerated if your model does not have a roof or a foundation with a floor. Even with a roof and foundation with a floor you can still introduce light bleed if the sunlight and environmental light are set at too high of an intensity. Looking at your Ray Trace it appears that you have the sunlight set fairly high as the exterior as it appears through the windows seems unnaturally bright. I would most likely reduce the sunlight intensity a bit and if you are using the environmental light I would also reduce it. Thanks for the reply, Graham. I have turned down the sun light and the environmental light to see if this helps some more. Back with results soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4UBLD Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) Next, assuming more improvement is still needed, I will try Ambient Occlusion with a max intensity of 4 or 5, per Jintu. (Thanks, Jintu.) Edited September 28, 2017 by B4UBLD To add thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4UBLD Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 OH, forgot to mention what Support had to say... Essentially, they asked if I'd tried the suggestions from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Like Graham said, do you have a roof on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4UBLD Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Yes, Perry, I have a roof on it. It helped quite a bit, but still some light bleed. Turned down the sun and environment light and seemed to get more improvement. When I have a chance tomorrow, I'll try to post a raytrace to show the results. Next I want to try Jintu's suggestion of adjusting Ambient Occlusion to max intensity of 4 or 5. Thanks again to all who've advised... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 B4UBLD - since you are using the environment light, make sure you have a foundation and the foundation has a floor. That will block the light bleed the can occur around baseboards and floor placed items. The best way I have found to envision what's happening with this light bleed from the sun and environment light is that the sun light is directional, it's more like a powerful spot light with shadows turned on placed in the sky above your model while on the other hand the environmental light seems to be non directional, it shots light at your model from all directions, even from below. For light bleed from the sun placing a roof on your structure blocks the directional sun light from penetrating the structure, it's casting a shadow on anything under the roof. As the environment light seems to shoots light at all angles you need a foundation with a floor to block the light that comes from below your model from penetrating the floor structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 info@jintudesigns.com I'll guide you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4UBLD Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 On 9/29/2017 at 6:52 AM, TheKitchenAbode said: B4UBLD - since you are using the environment light, make sure you have a foundation and the foundation has a floor. That will block the light bleed the can occur around baseboards and floor placed items. The best way I have found to envision what's happening with this light bleed from the sun and environment light is that the sun light is directional, it's more like a powerful spot light with shadows turned on placed in the sky above your model while on the other hand the environmental light seems to be non directional, it shots light at your model from all directions, even from below. For light bleed from the sun placing a roof on your structure blocks the directional sun light from penetrating the structure, it's casting a shadow on anything under the roof. As the environment light seems to shoots light at all angles you need a foundation with a floor to block the light that comes from below your model from penetrating the floor structure. Thanks, Graham. Having no recollection of having this light-bleed issue before (at least to such a significant degree) I am a bit surprised that having a roof on, as well as having a foundation in addition to a floor, makes such a difference. But the comments you make about the sunlight's properties in Chief Architect certainly make sense. If the light we all want to pour through the windows is to look at all realistic, then it makes sense that the sun would have to behave like, well, the sun. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4UBLD Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 On 9/29/2017 at 11:17 AM, Chiefer said: info@jintudesigns.com I'll guide you Jintu, how generous and kind. I must say that I've gathered that your expertise in this area is to be respected, so I appreciate your offer all the more. Speaking of your expertise, I must say that I went ahead and used the "Interior Settings by Jintu" that I saved from the Forum a while back. I believe that the result may well be the best ray trace (in this case, a 360) I've produced yet. Thanks for being such a great contributor here. And I assure you that I will be in touch soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 On 10/5/2017 at 5:08 PM, B4UBLD said: If the light we all want to pour through the windows is to look at all realistic, then it makes sense that the sun would have to behave like, well, the sun. :-) I think this is a very important aspect about Ray Trace. For better or worse it seems to work best if one does not try to push it into doing something it was not really designed to do. The direct sun and environment light are good examples, if you keep cranking them up to brighten your interior then light bleed can become a problem and if you make an exterior Ray Trace you will find that the exterior will be "way" over lit. I personally find it best to set the direct sun and environment light based on obtaining a properly lit exterior Ray Trace. Then for interiors it's best to use a 3D parallel light(s) to adjust the intensity of the direct sun entering through the window and then either 3D points or spots to adjust the interior ambient light level instead of cranking up the environment light. This example follows this philosophy, and with additional interior light fixtures a decent Ray Trace can be obtained without a lot of fussing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBoardman Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 On 8/21/2017 at 3:25 PM, Dennis_Gavin said: here is the plan ray traces with tone mapping turned off in image properties and some adjustments made to contrast and brightness. THe 2nd picture is with a couple of adjustments via Microsoft Office picture manager. Dennis what are your settings here. I'm a novice ray tracer and can't ever seem to get my white cabinets to so any dimension at all. I've attached a kitchen I am currently working on. NASO_kitchen.plan.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_Gavin Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 What version of Chief are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBoardman Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 X9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_Gavin Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 here is the plan altered. Check light settings etc. as well as cabinet and crown molding settings. Again, tone mapping is off. Also in picture attached I did auto correct in Microsoft Office picture manager. I like the effect better than doing the adjustment in Chief. NASO_II.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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