Let's Ray Trace

[Ridge_Runner]

11 hours ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Would be interesting to see how this approach looks, would it be possible to post the scene so we can see the effect. Thanks in advance.

Here's the one I did at half the resolution (1900x1052) minus the verbiage and logo I added later on to the larger one for the print shop. I did make a couple of minor adjustments to the raytrace before I saved it. I think I adjusted the brightness level down a couple of points. I have found I have to be careful on that adjustment as even 5-8 points is a drastic change sometimes. I like the greyish window color for this type of photo - focuses the viewer on the architectural details instead of being more busy. If the client had been willing to pay more I would have experimented with adding some subtle sky reflections to the windows according to an old thread I remember from a few years ago. I did not spend much time on this as it wasn't needed for this project. As always, your results may vary.  BTW, that "honkin" sloped roof line is existing that the owner did not want to remove; just replace roof covering. Otherwise, it would have been gone on the first prelim I sent him!

[KirkClemons]

On 7/6/2017 at 6:01 AM, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

Thanks Johnny, how far I can push this towards photo realism only time will tell. The Ray Trace program definitely lacks a number of features inherent in more dedicated rendering programs. One major issue is how Ray Trace deals with exterior sun light on interior scenes. Yes, it will create a bright patch say on the floor but it does not really take into account the overall effect this would have on the overall interior ambient light level and the lights overall direction & scattering effect. This will be one of the next things I will work on.

One thing I do to address the sunlight issue, is to turn off the sun, and then place some parallel light sources outside the structure with the following settings:

 

Then, use Copy/Paste in Place as needed to increase the overall temperature.

When using Ambient Occlusion in the ray trace settings, the program does a much better job of rendering this new "fake" sunlight more accurately.

[TheKitchenAbode]

27 minutes ago, KirkClemons said:

One thing I do to address the sunlight issue, is to turn off the sun, and then place some parallel light sources outside the structure with the following settings:

 

Then, use Copy/Paste in Place as needed to increase the overall temperature.

When using Ambient Occlusion in the ray trace settings, the program does a much better job of rendering this new "fake" sunlight more accurately.

 

I'm using a similar approach except with spots. They can be placed at different elevations and angled to match the sun or by changing the angle & direction you can simulate a more scattered ambient exterior light effect. I find a mix to be very effective. I usually combine this with some direct sun so I can control both effects. On an exterior scene this can be used to reduce shadows or increase brightness on specific regions of the buildings face, say a situation where part of the structure is exposed to the full sun and some is in a shaded region.

 

Here's the latest rendition using this technique along with some very welcomed tweaking advice from Jintu.

[TheKitchenAbode]

Here is a quick example of this exterior spot lighting effect.

 

Scene with just the direct sun set at 4.0.

 

Same scene with supplemental spot lighting.

 

In the first scene the brightness and shadow depth across the structure is exactly the same, even the roof, lawn and the patio bushes. With the supplemental spot lighting the brightness and shadow depths now vary across the structure and landscaping. The effect is also evident in the roof. Just a quick example but I think it demonstrates the potential benefit that can be derived from using a technique such as this.

[Renerabbitt]

1 hour ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

I'm using a similar approach except with spots. They can be placed at different elevations and angled to match the sun or by changing the angle & direction you can simulate a more scattered ambient exterior light effect. I find a mix to be very effective. I usually combine this with some direct sun so I can control both effects. On an exterior scene this can be used to reduce shadows or increase brightness on specific regions of the buildings face, say a situation where part of the structure is exposed to the full sun and some is in a shaded region.

 

Here's the latest rendition using this technique along with some very welcomed tweaking advice from Jintu.

The only thing I see this rendering needing is shadows around the waterfall edge and chairs, its as if they are floating off of the ground...maybe too many light sources or too strong ambient light?

It's really getting close.

are you using photon mapping or is this still on point with production renders?

I remember the original topic was about speed, which for the speed this render is very well done.

Downloading the plans now to play with, post back in a few

[TheKitchenAbode]

2 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

The only thing I see this rendering needing is shadows around the waterfall edge and chairs, its as if they are floating off of the ground...maybe too many light sources or too strong ambient light?

It's really getting close.

are you using photon mapping or is this still on point with production renders?

I remember the original topic was about speed, which for the speed this render is very well done

 

Hi Rene, you are correct about the lack of shadows and it does appear that the island and stools are floating above the floor. Will see if I can correct this.

 

These are being run with Photon Mapping turned "On". I'm now focused on upping the quality and will then see how fast I can do this without too much compromise. I'm sticking to my spot light only approach, if I were to be using point lights to the same extent that I'm using spots this scene would be impossible to run.

[Renerabbitt]

32 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

Hi Rene, you are correct about the lack of shadows and it does appear that the island and stools are floating above the floor. Will see if I can correct this.

 

These are being run with Photon Mapping turned "On". I'm now focused on upping the quality and will then see how fast I can do this without too much compromise. I'm sticking to my spot light only approach, if I were to be using point lights to the same extent that I'm using spots this scene would be impossible to run.

nice, you'll have to post the plan, interested to see what you work out.

scene is rendering in thea right now, 10 min left, in the meantime here's a Normals map for the tile backsplash I just made

[Kbird1]

5 hours ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

When you group select and open up the light DBX you need to look closely at the settings. There can be lights in the group that have different settings. Usually where this occurs the setting box will be greyed out as a way to indicate this. You can then enter a value which will set all the lights in the group the same or go back and hunt down that particular light. If there are different custom intensity settings in the group and you want to change them all to another custom setting then you have to first select one of the standard intensity settings first and then choose custom and put in your new % intensity setting. For some reason it will not allow you to go directly to the custom settings.

 

Thanks Graham , good info , I would not have figured that out , I'll give it another go...

 

[Renerabbitt]

Okay here's a first pass render, 53 min to download the plan, export 3ds, setup lights, apply materials, make a couple normals maps and render at a low sampling rate.

the graininess would go away if I upped it from a 13 min render to a 26 or even 39 minute

ALSO, and this is a BIG ALSO...when I setup scenes like this for myself, I always set corner clipping on my cabinets to 1/16" and apply an eased edge to the countertop as well as leaving the waterfall edge a 1/32" up from the floor...there are no razor sharp edges in real life, there shouldn't be in your rendering either. Definitely makes a difference

[Kbird1]

11 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

nice, you'll have to post the plan, interested to see what you work out.

scene is rendering in thea right now, 10 min left, in the meantime here's a Normals map for the tile backsplash I just made

 

Thanks Rene  , I grabbed your White Tile ones too from the other Thread too. Is that easy to do ? I made the Default White Tile into a 4x16 for a Current Client and it would look better with a Map I am sure.

[Renerabbitt]

1 minute ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Thanks Rene  , I grabbed your White Tile ones too from the other Thread too. Is that easy to do ? I made the Default White Tile into a 4x16 for a Current Client and it would look better with a Map I am sure.

just shoot me a PM and I can do it for you..yes it's easy in photoshop for some, takes practice is all..have to make a black and white gradient map for the recessed features and blank out everything that is on an even plane, then create the Normals map

[KirkClemons]

I published an article on how to do this using free software a while back as well:
https://kcclemo.neocities.org/creating-height-and-normal-maps/

[Kbird1]

5 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Okay here's a first pass render, 53 min to download the plan, export 3ds, setup lights, apply materials, make a couple normals maps and render at a low sampling rate.

the graininess would go away if I upped it from a 13 min render to a 26 or even 39 minute

 

Still it shows what is possible ......with some Talent    , it's looking great.

 

M.

[Renerabbitt]

1 minute ago, KirkClemons said:

I published an article on how to do this using free software a while back as well:
https://kcclemo.neocities.org/creating-height-and-normal-maps/

very nice, giving cred

[Kbird1]

2 minutes ago, KirkClemons said:

I published an article on how to do this using free software a while back as well:
https://kcclemo.neocities.org/creating-height-and-normal-maps/

 

Oh..thanks Kirk I'll have a look into it , but ATM , it maybe a little out of my league going on Rene's explanation above.

 

who are you doing tutorials for over there?

[KirkClemons]

2 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

who are you doing tutorials for over there?

 

I published that up there so that I could share it here. Since it's not a Chief Architect operation I couldn't have our training staff write a Knowledge base article so I published one on my neocities account.

[Kbird1]

10 minutes ago, KirkClemons said:

 

I published that up there so that I could share it here. Since it's not a Chief Architect operation I couldn't have our training staff write a Knowledge base article so I published one on my neocities account.

 

Thanks for doing that, looks interesting....

 

I was not aware of Neocities till now ....I used to have a Geocities Account years ago.... so the name is strangly familiar.

 

 

 

 

[TheKitchenAbode]

Gentlemen - I set up this thread to focus on Ray Tracing so It might hopefully be a consolidated source for us to share examples, tips and techniques to benefit ourselves and others. Please try to maintain it's focus. I'm also interested in all of those other things but if possible could they be set up under another topic heading. Many Thanks.

[Kbird1]

7 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Gentlemen - I set up this thread to focus on Ray Tracing so It might hopefully be a consolidated source for us to share examples, tips and techniques to benefit ourselves and others. Please try to maintain it's focus. I'm also interested in all of those other things but if possible could they be set up under another topic heading. Many Thanks.

 

Good Idea I think, sorry ...a thread on Bump and Normal Maps , Perhaps Kirk can move those Posts , so others will find them , especially his link to the Tutorial

 

M.

 

[Renerabbitt]

12 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Gentlemen - I set up this thread to focus on Ray Tracing so It might hopefully be a consolidated source for us to share examples, tips and techniques to benefit ourselves and others. Please try to maintain it's focus. I'm also interested in all of those other things but if possible could they be set up under another topic heading. Many Thanks.

agreed,

Graham can a spot light be setup up for general exterior light but then a parallel light for rays coming into a room?

Also do you have caustics turned on with your last trace?

[TheKitchenAbode]

1 minute ago, Renerabbitt said:

agreed,

Graham can a spot light be setup up for general exterior light but then a parallel light for rays coming into a room?

Also do you have caustics turned on with your last trace?

 

Thanks Rene,

I've not done much work with those parallel lights so I can't really comment much on them at this time. There's always something to explore and learn. No I do not have caustics turned on. It's another one of those things that slows down a Ray Trace. Have used it a couple of times but not enough to really be able to talk to much about the pro's and con's. I know it is designed specifically to deal with how light is altered(bent/warped) as it passes through a glass type of object. It's just my guess but I believe the effect is most apparent on close-up shots where another object is just behind something like a glass, say a close shot across a set table top.

[Renerabbitt]

30 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

Thanks Rene,

I've not done much work with those parallel lights so I can't really comment much on them at this time. There's always something to explore and learn. No I do not have caustics turned on. It's another one of those things that slows down a Ray Trace. Have used it a couple of times but not enough to really be able to talk to much about the pro's and con's. I know it is designed specifically to deal with how light is altered(bent/warped) as it passes through a glass type of object. It's just my guess but I believe the effect is most apparent on close-up shots where another object is just behind something like a glass, say a close shot across a set table top.

a good example of real world caustics,

I was just curious if you had it turned on or off. 

I know that the windows add a pretty serious hit to raytrace times just like lights do, the less of either, the faster the times. maybe throwing the windows that arent in the scene onto an invisible layer may pay dividends. I'd actually be curious to see what would happen if you changed the ones in the scene to pass throughs..what would change for the lighting

[TheKitchenAbode]

9 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

a good example of real world caustics,

I was just curious if you had it turned on or off. 

I know that the windows add a pretty serious hit to raytrace times just like lights do, the less of either, the faster the times. maybe throwing the windows that arent in the scene onto an invisible layer may pay dividends. I'd actually be curious to see what would happen if you changed the ones in the scene to pass throughs..what would change for the lighting

Seeing that pic reminds me of an effect I was somewhat seeing on walls and ceilings. The odd thing was that sometimes they appeared to be correct(chandelier crystals) and then other times random grainy white splotches would just suddenly show up. If enough passes were run they would diminish, but took a long time. Not 100% sure what was the real cause but if caustics was turned off it would never reoccur.

[Kbird1]

@ Rene and Graham , I PM'd Kirk to move the "Maps" posts above to the new thread , so if you both agree he will move posts

 

Hi Kirk , the "Maps" posts, that we made are muddying the Waters of the RT Thread with talk of "Maps" , so it was agreed by myself and Rene not to continue the discussion there (posts #69 and 70) , so the posts needing moving would be 57 60,61,61,64,65,66,67.

 

Mick.

[TheKitchenAbode]

1 hour ago, Kbird1 said:

@ Rene and Graham , I PM'd Kirk to move the "Maps" posts above to the new thread , so if you both agree he will move posts

 

Hi Kirk , the "Maps" posts, that we made are muddying the Waters of the RT Thread with talk of "Maps" , so it was agreed by myself and Rene not to continue the discussion there (posts #69 and 70) , so the posts needing moving would be 57 60,61,61,64,65,66,67.

 

Mick.

 No problem with me. The new map thread looks very interesting.