Chimney - How?

[SH_Canada]

11 hours ago, ChiefUserBigRob said:

I do mine similar to this and use the caps provided in the library......

hmm how? In this post it says you cannot specify a room in an attic, and I tried as well and could not.  or were you doing a different one of the options?

 

12 hours ago, DzinEye said:

Not really how it's usually built though.  Usually the main wall would continue up.  Alternatively to your solution you can break the house wall at the connections with the side walls of the chimney, then open that wall section, select the roof panel, then select 'lower wall split by butting roof' and apply the proper wall types to the upper and lower sections.

 

so yes discovered that as well when I was doing the cross section.  I ended up removing the inner wall, and because the chimney is lower than the peak of the roof, the elevation never actually showed the now missing wall. I was going to try and put in a psolid. But your solution sounds much easier. thanks

[Alaskan_Son]

28 minutes ago, jasonN said:

 

13 hours ago, DzinEye said:

Not really how it's usually built though.  Usually the main wall would continue up.  Alternatively to your solution you can break the house wall at the connections with the side walls of the chimney, then open that wall section, select the roof panel, then select 'lower wall split by butting roof' and apply the proper wall types to the upper and lower sections.

 

so yes discovered that as well when I was doing the cross section.  I ended up removing the inner wall, and because the chimney is lower than the peak of the roof, the elevation never actually showed the now missing wall. I was going to try and put in a psolid. But your solution sounds much easier. thanks

 

Every house and its chimney/chase configurations are a little different and they all need to be modeled differently depending on the specific situation.  As was mentioned before, whenever possible, they should just be modeled as they will be built.  The trick of course is figuring out how to model them as they will be built.  If I understand correctly what you're talking about in this particular situation though, I believe the best approach is some variation of this (most parts of which were probably already mentioned in one form or another but I'm not sure they were all fully put together):

1. Make your chimney/chase its own room surrounded by walls
2. As was already mentioned by someone else 7 years ago, build an extra blank floor (don't just try to use the attic level) for the upper part of your chimney/chase and define those chimney/chase rooms as Open Below.
3. Use the appropriate wall definitions on both floors.  This may require placing breaks down on the first floor exterior house wall(s).

This is a very simple example plan that required no adjusting of walls in elevation and no manipulation of Wall Layer Intersections.

Chase example.plan

[SH_Canada]

that(referring the breaking of the atic wall into its own wall)  worked really well (except problem at the end), just had to remember to reverse the layers.

 

@Alaskan_Son and I were writing at the same time

 

For those that find this post,

 

 

looks like this before doing 4

 

 

but any idea how to get rid of this look:

[SH_Canada]

1 minute ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Build an extra blank floor for the upper part of your chimney/chase and define those chimney/chase rooms and define those rooms as Open Below

I'll admit, I'm scared to do this as the house is already done, and the customer just added this chimney at the very last minute.

 

wont adding a floor to a floor which already has a roof screw things up?

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

Just now, jasonN said:

wont adding a floor to a floor which already has a roof screw things up?

Just do a Save As of your plan and try it.  learning to experiment with TRASH plans is one of the most fundamental learning tools at your disposal.

[Alaskan_Son]

By the way, you don't always need the extra floor.  It totally depends on the plan.  If for example its a 2 story plan where the chase only extends up through a single story section of the plan, then the upper part of the chase (the Open Below room) can just go on the existing second floor.

[SH_Canada]

true true, but half the time I think things work, do some other things and then find out other issues related to when I did the thing which I thought worked, and then have to go back and redo on the plan before the save as

 

keep saving different files I suppose is the answer, but then the layout has to be checked for the right file .....

[mtldesigns]

Instead of adding floors, can you just increase the ceiling height of the fireplace "room"?

[SH_Canada]

2 minutes ago, mtldesigns said:

Instead of adding floors, can you just increase the ceiling height of the fireplace "room"?

thats what I did but that only gets you the three walls, as the fourth wall needs to be above the actual exterior wall, in real life

 

[Alaskan_Son]

3 minutes ago, mtldesigns said:

Instead of adding floors, can you just increase the ceiling height of the fireplace "room"?

No.  My opinion is that this approach only ends in tail chasing induced headaches.

 

[mtldesigns]

Just now, Alaskan_Son said:

tail chasing induced headaches.

I have one of those now, unrelated to this post however.

[Alaskan_Son]

8 minutes ago, jasonN said:

true true, but half the time I think things work, do some other things and then find out other issues related to when I did the thing which I thought worked, and then have to go back and redo on the plan before the save as

 

keep saving different files I suppose is the answer, but then the layout has to be checked for the right file .....

 

Don't use the experimental plans as actual working plans.  Just play around with them to test things out.

[SH_Canada]

so i think I know why I have that ugly look on the stud on the wall I lifted up, but I cannot seem to fix the wall, it keeps springing back to landing half way in the other wall. any suggestions

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

3 minutes ago, jasonN said:

so i think I know why I have that ugly look on the stud on the wall I lifted up, but I cannot seem to fix the wall, it keeps springing back to landing half way in the other wall. any suggestions

 

 

Yes.  Stop doing it that way and try my suggestion.  Manually adjusting walls in elevation and manually adjusting Wall Layer Intersections will ultimately just lead to the aforementioned headaches later on. 

[SH_Canada]

@Alaskan_Son

 

your plan has one of the roof planes on the chimney floor, but not the accompanying one. Was this by design?

 

[SH_Canada]

1 minute ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Stop doing it that way and try my suggestion.

yes examining your file now

 

[Alaskan_Son]

Just now, jasonN said:

@Alaskan_Son

 

your plan has one of the roof planes on the chimney floor, but not the accompanying one. Was this by design?

 

No.  I didn't do anything with the roofs.  I have Auto Rebuild Roofs toggled on and for whatever reason Chief just places one of the cricket planes up on the 2nd floor.

[SH_Canada]

1 minute ago, Alaskan_Son said:

whatever reason Chief just places one of the cricket planes up on the 2nd floor

one can only chuckle this late in the night

 

 

[SH_Canada]

well two side effects so far:

I suppose I could always move the windows back down if that is the only side effect, but not sure how to fix the other one with the siding..maybe I'll see if I can rebuild the attic wall...tommorow

 

 

 

 

 

[SH_Canada]

well rebuilding the attic wall did not work, but deleting it did, to fix the siding on top of each other

 

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

1 minute ago, jasonN said:

well two side effects so far:

I suppose I could always move the windows back down if that is the only side effect, but not sure how to fix the other one with the siding..maybe I'll see if I can rebuild the attic wall...tommorow

 

 

 

Not that I'm sure I'll have time anymore, but the conversation is almost always far more productive and efficient for everyone involved when you post a plan so everyone knows what you're doing. 

 

Sometimes the solution isn't to add a floor but to insert a floor.  As I mentioned before, sometimes the additional floor is not necessary at all.  We also don't know if you've manually messed with wall polylines or attic walls (both of which could screw things up), we don't know what your roof situation is (auto, manual, baseline polylines, etc.), we don't know what level you placed your windows on, and we don't know anything about what your various wall and room settings are....to name just a few things that come to mind.

[SH_Canada]

I'll play with it some more tomorrow, I think I may have done the "build floor" instead of insert, but I will check

 

thanks all

 

 

 

[DzinEye]

14 hours ago, jasonN said:

but any idea how to get rid of this look:

This is an unfortunate limitation on how Chief joins dissimilar walls where that 'Roof splits' option is used.  I usually have corner boards to hide that when using this method, but when I have a stucco wall then I skip the 'Roof splits' option and use exterior walls all around with a wall material region on the inside.   I should point out that I only use this method when it's a chimney that will likely be balloon framed.  It looked like you had a sidewall chimney on a one-story house with a lower pitched roof so I guessed it would probably be balloon framed.  As Michael points out, any taller non-balloon framed chase would have a plate and the method he describes with an open below floor platform is the way to go.

[Alaskan_Son]

5 minutes ago, DzinEye said:

As Michael points out, any taller non-balloon framed chase would have a plate and the method he describes with an open below floor platform is the way to go.

 

You can still use the same method if balloon framing.  You might just have to check Balloon Through Ceiling Above for the partition wall, or at worst, you can manually modify a little framing in the Wall Detail(s).

[DzinEye]

2 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

You can still use the same method if balloon framing.  At worst, you might have to check Balloon Through Ceiling Above for the partition wall. 

Ahh...  yes, of course!...yet another option.  I'll have to give that one a try.  I've used the balloon through checkbox many a time for different walls before but I guess it didn't come to me as it seems counter-intuitive to go out of the way to build the chase with a floor platform and then tell it to ignore the platform and balloon frame it.