Problems Using Decimal Feet & Quadrant Bearing For Site Plan

[CJSpud]

I have a project that has a lot that is almost perfectly square with respect to N/S/E/W although the actual lot survey shows the E/W side lines are not perfect true North nor are the N/S end lines perfectly E/W.  I was going to get lazy and not even show the bearing angles of the property lines ... just the property line lengths in decimal feet to two places.  The lot's end lines and side lines are perfectly parallel with each other so I just plan to use the CAD box tool to create the lot lines and not worry about the lines being exactly as shown on the survey.  So, as shown in the first image below, I have drawn a rectangular shaped box (159.13' x 279.00'), selected the box and clicked on Number Style and changed the display to decimal feet (and a little later on the selection for the quadrant bearing angle option); then clicked OK.  The result is that the distances is displayed as feet and inches, not decimal feet.  And later when I clicked to display the quadrant bearing angles, they do not show correctly either [the north end line is 0° rather than N90°E].

 

 

As you can see in the image, the end line length is displayed as 159' 1-9/16" rather than 159.13'; and the bearing angle is shown only as 0°, not as a bearing angle as I noted above.  Also note that in the Polyline Specification dialog box (dbx), both the values (Length/Angle) are correctly shown in their respective entry boxes when I have selected the end line for the polyline box and then clicked on Selected Line.

 

As another experiment, I clicked on the CAD line tool, then the Input Line information tool, but for some reason I cannot get the dbx to change from Absolute Location to Polar ... it is locked (grayed out) such that I can put a check in the Polar option even though that is the option I have selected in the Number Style dbx.

 

 

Everywhere I can think of I have made sure that I have decimal feet (for this Site Plan) checked as how I want it to display yet I seem to be missing something somewhere that it's like not being able to see the forest for the trees.  Any ideas anyone as to where I am messing up?  Thanks.

 

PS:  I know I can "wing it" by just manually adding the decimal feet distances to the lot lines (the PL box) but figured that just having Chief do it for me was the way to go.  Maybe this is a dreadful bug .... but probably it is just me missing the obvious.  By the way, my CAD Defaults for CAD, Plot Plan look correct to me as well.  This is like trying to find a needle in a haystack!

 

 

 

[CJSpud]

Also note in my first post ... first image ... that I pulled an End to End dimension across and it displayed as a decimal value.  Why the other won't is beyond me.  Could I have found a bug?

[glennw]

Curt,

 

You really have yourself tied up in a knot here.

 

First off the Number Style dbx only applies to the display of angles and number styles in the dbx's - it has no effect on how these things display in the drawing.

 

You say you used a Cad Box to draw the rectangle - the cad box does not allow you to Show Angle and Show Length like a closed polyline (which I assume is what you really used. 

 

The format of the Show Angle and Show Length is controlled by General Cad default. Note that you can display the Reverse Angle if you want to.

 

The Input Line tool doesn't allow you to select Relative to Start Point because you don't have a start point yet!

Either draw your first line with the tool, which will place a point at the end of the line to start a new line from, or place a Place Point to act as the start point for the Input Line. 

 

Ah, you posted again as I was typing.

 

The dimension settings have nothing to do with the things you are trying to display.

[Alaskan_Son]

Curt,

 

2 things...

 

1.  It works just fine for me.

 

2.  The Number Style Setting is really only for how numbers display inside actual DBX's.  It doesn't really affect the way numbers are displayed IN PLAN (although if I remember correctly there is one exception having to do with schedules maybe??  That's another subject though).  What you need to change is shown in my attached image (which it looks like you are already doing. 

 

Without a plan its hard to tell whats going on.

[Alaskan_Son]

I suspect that when you drew that original polyline that you hadn't yet changed your CAD Default settings. 

[CJSpud]

Glenn/Michael:

 

Thanks for your responses.

 

I erred by saying I used the CAD box tool.  It was the "polyline" box tool. 

 

I guess I should have done the lot lines the old fashioned way .... with a start point and then input the distances and angles for each of the four lines.

 

OK ...  did that, the survey closed nicely.  Still not getting the distances and angles to display as I want them to.  I need to figure out how to do that.  I'll go do some homework.  Guess I am getting rusty.

 

Thanks.  Not sure if I understand what benefit there is in being able to display length/angles etc. of a polyline box if it doesn't work "as expected".  I used to know this stuff (or I thought I did).... hmmmm.  Time to check the manual, video(s) and/or help database.

[dshall]

CJ,  see if this helps

 

https://youtu.be/MQtXjZvSZE4

[CJSpud]

Hi Scott:

 

You're up early too.  Great video.  I "think" you have demonstrated what I was trying to do quite well.  This a.m. I can duplicate what you've done precisely and get the line lengths and angles to display exactly as I wanted to .... using the polyline box to create the property boundaries.  Yesterday .... something was mis-behaving and it was giving me fits.  I usually don't like to post simple stuff like this on Chief Talk because it takes a bunch of time to type things in, capture some images, etc.  But, I did it anyway.

 

I was using both the CAD defaults and the Number Style (PL box dialog ... bottom left corner) in my effort to get length and angles to show right.  I was using the Plot Plan anno set and I even have a layer  set for the Plot Plan and within that layer set, a CAD, Plot Plan layer in which I have a specific Text Style setup for 1" = 30' text heights which is what I'm using for this project.

 

Today ... all seems to be working .... yesterday, well .... it was like your Chargers losing to the Broncos or Raiders or some other arch rival.

 

After reading Glenn's and Michael's posts, I thought I needed to take a trip back to Site Plan "first grade" and try to figure out what's going on with my process - how I thought things worked.  Glenn's first comment about the Number Style and what it means didn't sink in at first but in reality, Chief has it spelled right out in the dbx:

 

 

I even looked into Tim Munson's CA book to see how he walked through the process.  I found something in there I need to follow up on ... actually didn't get all the way through his method but will get back to it and finish reading/evaluating as soon as I can as he's very thorough in going through the process of Site Plan development step-by-step.

 

Thanks again for the video ... nice to have something perk me up in the morning ... besides the coffee and a few chocolate chip cookies.

[CJSpud]

Chopsaw:

 

After watching Scott's video and experimenting with defaults, etc., I decided to try to edit the line lengths and bearing angles for a 4-sided polyline box to see how editing each line would work such as you talked about in your post.  First I made the PL box close to the dimensions of the lot survey I am working with ... none of the end lines are true east/west and none of the side lines are true north/south.  Starting with one of the lines (Selected Line), and working clockwise around, I adjusted the lengths and bearing angles according to my client's lot survey.  After doing the first 3 sides, the 4th side was perfectly adjusted without me having to mess with it.  A very fast - easy process.  Not sure how much faster/slower it might be to the line input method but it certainly works well IMO.  Thanks again for your post.

[Chopsaw]

CJ,  You may have just taught me something as I don't think I have ever done a simple four sided lot and usually work with individual lines as surveys in this area hardly ever close.  So when I get one of those then I will try the polyline method.

 

Thanks, Chopsaw

[CJSpud]

Me teaching someone else something ..... ???  If it works for you, you're welcome.

[Alaskan_Son]

On 11/13/2016 at 3:11 AM, dshall said:

CJ,  see if this helps

 

https://youtu.be/MQtXjZvSZE4

 

I decided to watch your video because I was curious how other people might be displaying their lot line lengths and angles.   You said something that has got me curious…

 

Is there a particular reason you mentioned using a CAD line to display a dimension in your floor plan (I think you mentioned dimensioning to a toilet maybe) INSTEAD OF simply using an actual dimension line?

[Alaskan_Son]

BTW Scott, in case you or others don't realize this, those CAD Default settings for line length and angle settings are VIEW SPECIFIC.  So...for example, if you use your reference display you could draw a second group of lines on another floor with different length and angle formats (you could even create a blank floor specifically for this purpose if you wanted).  OR, you could create a Plan Footprint CAD Detail and use a second line/angle format that way.  You could even send overlapping views to layout and get another set of formatting that way.  Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there.

[CJSpud]

Michael:

 

My guess as to why Scott would use a double-arrow line and dimension for dimensioning a toilet (etc.) to some other object would be so he doesn't get any point markers.  Those extra cross-hair lines from the point markers can get a bit annoying and clutter up a plan.  Scott may have a totally different reason.  I may be way out in left field on my guess.

 

Thanks for you comments on the CAD default settings being "view specific" ... I will have to check that out.

[Alaskan_Son]

On 12/9/2016 at 6:32 AM, CJSpud said:

Michael:

 

My guess as to why Scott would use a double-arrow line and dimension for dimensioning a toilet (etc.) to some other object would be so he doesn't get any point markers.  Those extra cross-hair lines from the point markers can get a bit annoying and clutter up a plan.  Scott may have a totally different reason.  I may be way out in left field on my guess.

 

 

If that IS true, there are several other ways to deal with that. The first few that come to mind though...

 

1.  Put the markers on their own layer and turn the layer off.

2.  Put the markers on their own layer and change that layer to the invisible line style

3.  Change the marker radius to zero

4.  Use a polyline or molding polyline with a macro.  I just posted a free toolset for this.

[dshall]

2 hours ago, CJSpud said:

Michael:

 

My guess as to why Scott would use a double-arrow line and dimension for dimensioning a toilet (etc.) to some other object would be so he doesn't get any point markers.  Those extra cross-hair lines from the point markers can get a bit annoying and clutter up a plan.  Scott may have a totally different reason.  I may be way out in left field on my guess.

 

Thanks for you comments on the CAD default settings being "view specific" ... I will have to check that out.

 

Curt,  you are absolutely correct.

 

[dshall]

2 hours ago, CJSpud said:

........

 

Thanks for you comments on the CAD default settings being "view specific" ... I will have to check that out.

 

I do not use this feature because of the limitation...... which was my point in the beginning.

 

I do not like it to be view specific. Why can't it be line specific?    Why can't I have a line length be in feet and inches and another line in decimal feet?

 

It's really not a huge deal for me,  there are bigger catfish to fry.

 

 

[CJSpud]

Michael:

 

Yup ... lots of ways to deal with the display of points.  It really boils down to how much time does one want to spend either presenting things (showing the toilet dimension, e.g.) and/or making things look professional for the customer.  When I do dimensions such as Scott was talking about, it is most often shown during the design phase (if things are a wee bit tight, I want my customer to know about it ahead of time) and once the design is finalized, then I typically will remove the spacing dimension from the final plan.  In my case, I use the point to point dimension tool for this as the dimension I want to evaluate is often on an angle of some sort (not horiz./not vert.) so the point to point dimension tool works best.  I have on occasion used a double arrow line for this type of dimension, but not all that often.