Joe_Carrick

Michael, I think you're being too complicated in how you view this. Basically, I'm just saying that what I see in a 3D view should look the same in Plan (ie CD's). I really can't see how that would give any problems with dimensioning. BTW, AFAIK the only thing that the Ctrl Key provides is to over-ride axis and/or snap modes. That has nothing to do with my point.

The Window thing is only one case. Having the origins match but both being offset by the same amount is not the same as having them both at [0,0] so no, it doesn't put us back to square one. We can in fact insert a symbol into a wall (X7 provides for "Window Symbols" aka "Projection Windows" but the implementation wasn't complete)

Of course, if Chief would allow us to change the "side" of windows like it does doors then we would get bothe the 3D and 2D to change sides.

Instead of asking me, why don't you just try it. I know it works because I'd already done it hours ago.

But of course this also points out the fact that rotating the 3D Symbol doesn't rotate the 2D Block. Basically the same thing as the difference in origin values as with rotation. We really need CA to do something about these anomalies. I can see where there could be some cases where you would want them to be different but there are many more cases where they should be coordinated .

Simple answer..... In the symbol dbx - rotate the symbol 180 degrees. Do I get a prize?

Ron, I think you're right, but it really depends on the structure. In Scott's case I believe he has a span of about 16' so if he sloped in just one direction at 1/4" per foot he would have a total drop of 4" which could be a visual problem. There are basically 3 ways to get slope on a "Flat Roof": 1. Sloped the Rafters and add level ceiling joists if needed. 2. Level Rafters and add wedged shaped strips on top to create the slope 3. Level Rafters and a LW Concrete Topping sloped as needed. My preference is #3

Scott, What does your Not Perfect solution look like in 3D?

Chief calls these Half Hip Style in the Roof Styles Panel of the Build Roof dbx. I think they can be automatically generated. Then there is the reverse system called a California Gable. Those are the kind that has a small gable (kind of like an inline dormer) projecting out from ridge on a hip roof. Chief doesn't include those.

I also looked at all the Toilet Fixtures CA provides. The Elongated Toilet has a spacer so the bounding box goes back an extra inch but non of the others have that feature. Just like the Washing Machines, they are missing the spacer. I could go thru the Library, copy Chief's stuff and create my own symbols (each with a 1/8" diameter sphere or cube placed 1" behind the fixture) but that's a lot of work. IAE, it doesn't solve the problem for anything that needs to be offset the other direction. Adrean, if you see this you might want to consider looking at all the appliances and fixtures that should be offset from the wall. Even most furniture should have at least a 1" gap from the wall.

Scott, Here you go - knock yourself out. But I don't think it's fair that you won't bet before trying it. Recessed Bookcase for Scott.zip

Scott, What amount do you want to bet? I could use a new set of golf clubs.

There are thousands of potential symbols that might need to be offset from a wall or inset into a wall. We have appliance symbols that insert into the face of a cabinet and they are controlled by the 3D origin but in the long run, adding a small 100% transparent 3D cube to a Symbol will only work for offset from a wall - never for inset.

Here's another example: I created a "Window" symbol that looks like a Bookcase. I set the 3D origin so that it would be recessed into the wall (it automatically cuts an opening in the wall because it's a "Window Symbol") but the 2D Plan shows it out on the face of the wall. No amount of tweaking with any of the suggested workarounds will solve this problem - but any of the suggested software fixes that I've made could take care of it.

Scott, I agree with you on everything above. The point is: 1. We can't offset the bounding box beyond the back of the symbol. 2. We don't have "Wall Offset Distance" 3. We don't have "Offset the CAD" 4. We don't have "Make CAD origin match 3D origin". Any of the above would solve the problem. PLEASE Doug - give us one of the above (my preference is 1 or 3 but I'd settle for all 4)

Scott, If you recall the exercise using a Window Symbol as a Wall Niche or as a Bookcase recessed into a wall - that's one of the prime uses. But it's not just a Symbol that Hangs on the Wall - it's any Symbol that is stopped by a wall (which of course is almost anything at all unless you use the control key or Transform/Replicate).

I'm pretty sure your use of this "feature" is unique. That said, it could be solved by a simple check box or default providing for the 2D and 3D origins to be matched or not matched. Furniture is probably the only item that I can think of that you might not want them to match. Consider this: If you create a Toilet Fixture you would normally want this fixture to be 1" away from the finished wall surface in both 2D and 3D. Figure out how to make that happen. It's the same problem for fixtures recessed into walls, etc.

That should work fine as long as the edge of the deck (2" high point) provides a way for the water to get out if a drain gets plugged. I would opt for one of the high end membrane deck systems and make sure the bond between the drains and the membrane is positive so that any standing water can't get thru into the structure.

As someone who designed my own home 25 years ago with a "Flat Roof System" I can say that it's not that big of a problem. My method was to have a Rafter System with a 1/4" per ft slope to internal roof drains and overflows. The Ceiling joist wer then scabbed on to the sides of the rafters perfectly level. The waterproof membrane is the key element. Generally, a good torch-down 2 ply system is good for at least 20 years. Even better would be a decking system which will probably last for at least 30-40 years. I designed my home with just a 6" curb around the perimeter and sloped the roof to the center where the drains were located. As far as modeling it in Chief - I just use a floor with short solid railing walls for the parapets. The actual slope & drainage are handled with details and notes. Modeling it as perfectly flat isn really a problem -it's close enough and the actual construction isn't that difficult for the builder.

Larry, For Back Clipped Cross Sections it's not very effective since the clipping distance is usually small (1-2 ft.) But for general Sections it just clips the framing members but leaves the room elevations beyond visible. If set to "0" (Default OOB) then all framing is displayed from the camera position to infinity. I have it set to 24" so that I get at least 1 (parallel) truss or set of joists beyond the camera position. Naturally, all the framing members intersected by the cutting plane are shown. Basically this eliminates a bunch of extraneous framing from being shown and as Bill indicated it saves a ton of manual editing and masking to get a decent Cross Section view.

Bill absolutely nailed it - that's the advantage of this setting and pretty much all the extra work that it eliminates. I was thinking that it would be good for it to be on an individual basis (per section view) but after thinking about it some more..... It's fine as a Default Setting. I have it set to 24" and I love it. That's exactly the way Framing should be shown in Section Views.

Maybe Doug is hinting that we may be getting Cross Sections that can be offset. IOW, not just on a single plane across the width of the structure( stepped or even at 2 different angles. Something that we've been asking for since..................... I can understand how the "Framing Clip" could interfere with such an implementation. Maybe while they're at it they can figure a way to limit a cross section to a single floor and a way to make interior elevations span more that one floor and more than one room - other than using a cross section. I seem to recall that there's supposed to be a way to make "Room Dividers" not end a room elevation - but I can't find that setting so maybe it's a figment of my imagination.

The only reason it wasn't used previously is that it was so poorly documented that we didn't know it existed. Maybe you should explain what proposed feature would be in X7 that would require this to be eliminated. Also, since so few of the Chief users post on these forums it might not be valid to assume that it isn't used by many more than have responded.

OK Chief Armstrong................. You opened this up and now several of us want to use it.

Gerry, I can understand that. Is it only the "Comments" field that gets erased if you change something such as the width of a Door? I have to have my basic Door in the Library in order to bring in the values of custom Sub Categories. What if I then replace one of my Doors which has the Sub Categories that I've added with another Library Door. It would really be nice if Chief would allow us to edit the Default Components and not have to go thru the Song and Dance with each object. Hmmmm...... I need to do some experimenting.