Larry_Sweeney

Locking truss envelope

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I have 5 different trusses on my project. Everyone I made needed to be "fine tuned" for one reason or another (some a lot). After adjusting them and getting them right I locked the truss envelopes and went into the floor plan to move them around for 24" centers and to multiply them where needed. As soon as I moved the first one, I noticed in my truss cad detail that the truss changed back to the way it was originally when first made losing all the changes  I made even though I had the envelope locked. Is this the way it should work? What's the use of having the "envelope lock" if as soon as it is moved it changes back? Please tell me there is a work around to this or did I approach correcting the trusses all wrong?

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Larry - Sorry if I'm confused, but why did you alter the trusses on the first floor plan

Is that where they reside?

Shouldn't you be in the attic to make the changes?

Again, sorry this might be a dumb response, it just struck me as odd to do that from the 1st fl plan

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Randy....I don't say anything about the first floor plan. I just stated I went back to the floor plan so I could move the trusses. I am building the trusses off the second floor plate. I'm building trusses or should I say I'm trying too.

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So sorry. misread your  post - please forget I was here (not hard to do)

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ADDING TO MY FIRST THREAD OR AT LEAST TRYING TO CLARIFY BETTER MY PROBLEM......When I built my trusses I stated they weren't completely correct. I changed what I could with the highlighted truss envelope. As everyone knows this can be a real PITA. After "playing" around (and I do mean playing) trying to make the trusses somewhat correct so the truss company would understand what I was looking for, I ended up going to the "truss detail" and making rest of the changes I thought were needed. After making these final changes in the truss detail I locked the envelope and tried moving the trusses to their correct position. It was at this point when I noticed the trusses were reverting back to the way they were when they were first made. Can you not "lock" the changes when they are "corrected" in a truss detail so they can be adjusted and multiplied on the plan?

 

I'm sending a link for the plan. If anyone wants to look at it. After opening the plan, open the "truss detail" up. I made a cad detail in red) of the truss detail. I next copied the cad detail into the truss detail for comparison so if anything would change with my trusses in my truss detail, because of moving the trusses in plan view, I would have quick reference. The last truss (TR-5) is as close as I could get by working with the truss envelope for this particular truss. The "look" I was after for the same truss is TR-1. Some of the other trusses when made by CA were WAY off the mark and it took much work to correct them in "truss detail". You could check this out yourself if you want to. I'm sure I'm being a PAIN, but I need to find some clarification on this. Either by someone in ChiefTalk or support as to whether I'm asking for the impossible. I just think if you can make changes in "truss detail" and the changes show up in your cross section, then there should be a way to lock it so you can move it around in the plan or multiply it. Please forgive me for rambling on, but I'm just sooo very frustrated with this.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49042923/BOYD%20STATION%2002252014.zip

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Larry- you're not being a pain at all! I haven't tried this in X6 yet, but it's been a constant battle in X5.

I do exactly what you're describing, and they get messed up every time. sometimes I just give up. this last project it was more important, so I spent time to make a p-solid. only problem then was it didn't show up correctly in 2d.

So, I'll ask the same question: If we alter a truss in the truss detail and lock the envelope, why doesn't it stick???

Thanks for posting Larry.

Barb

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Never had this issue, but never found myself unable to edit a truss to do what I wanted.  Way back in V10 or maybe X2 there was a bug that prohibited certain radical surgeries, but that got fixed.

 

But I never edited a truss in truss detail.  Only live in section.  And I always lock envelope afterward.

 

In the image attached, you can see a simple roof thing I did with a dropped vaulted ceiling under.  The far truss was drawn and meets the spec for the envelope defined by the roof above and the ceiling planes below.  I locked that and copied it to another part of the building where the envelope is different.  I also placed a copy of the truss out in space beyond the building.

 

It has always worked for me that a truss, when selected in plan and in spec, checking "lock truss envelope," stays locked and is movable anywhere as any 3D object.  I suspect there is something going on with your situation due to your editing in detail, not in plan.

post-55-0-55958100-1393346498_thumb.png

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Gene......I'm sure that's it also, but I'm unable to get the truss even close to what I want by working just in the envelope. Working with the envelope can be (and is) very frustrating. It would seem that if you can make changes in the "truss detail" area and those changes show up in the model, there should be a way to lock and keep those changes to the truss. If you have a chance to look at my model, draw a truss along side one of the trusses I modified and see the difference of what I get and what I want. This is especially true over the stair area. If there is a better way to define the structure of the rooms so the truss builds more correctly I don't know how to do it. Thanks for your time.

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Try this in X-section.  Using the ALL OFF layerset as your base, copy it and rename it something like TRUSS EDITING.  Add a new layer, turned on, called CAD - TRUSS EDITING.

 

Now use CAD and draw any guide lines, polylines, curves, whatever you need, to help with editing the truss envelope.  Use the lines for force-snapping the truss envelope to suit your needs.

 

I find that with room specs for ceiling heights in flat-ceiling space, and ceiling planes, I can get the truss to build initially almost perfect most times.

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Gene.....Thanks for that info. Hopefully a little later tonight I'll have the time to play around with your suggestion. Much appreciated. I'll let you know how it works out for me. Have a great day.

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If you are really serious about getting the truss right in Cheif then you could also try this.

From a back clipped cross section use the CAD Detail from View tool. In the CAD Detail create polylines for the truss configuration you want using the existing lines as a template.

Copy the new polylines back to the cross section veiw and convert them to polyline solids.

You can then group them using the Architectural Blocks tool. You may want to alter the material assigned to each member to distinguish the separate parts. The part that I find extremely annoying is that A B will not display correctly in a 2D plan view over walls. You will have to come up with some method to address this issue.

You can make any shape truss with knotches or whatever you want. I like this method for such things as structural galbles, or anything else CA doesn't do.

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Rod..... This is exactly what I ended up doing. I usually don't bother with the truss detail in my models whenever I can, but there's a lot of things going on in this model that I want to make sure the truss company picks up and understands. I like to get my plans as "black & white" as possible with no "grey" areas.  I always have a "hair pulling-too much coffee" day when working the trusses up in CA. The "truss envelopes" drive me nuts. After reading Gene's thread I'm going to sit down later tonight (with a glass of wine :) ) and try his apporach.

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I'll have to try your method. That's Glen's method and a glass of wine. :)

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