Battered (Sloped) Walls

[Joe_Carrick]

Should Chief add a capability of "Battered Walls" (walls that are vertical on the inside but sloped on the outside)?

This sort of thing has been the subject of countless questions and suggestions over the years but I don't think it's ever been adequately defined.

 

If they can, what should be considered for how the following work:

 

1.  Window Openings?

2.  Door Openings?

3.  Framing?

4.  Wall Slope (angle, thickness at top, thickness at bottom)?

5.  Wall alignment (outside at bottom, outside at middle, outside at top)?

 

There are a lot of variables to consider and it's a pretty complex problem - but if we can come up with a good consensus of what should be..........

 

Please - don't complicate this by expanding the discussion to walls that are sloped on the inside and outside.  Those are a very different item which would need to be discussed separately.

[Doug_Park]

The shape of the wall is the easy part. The questions you ask are the hard questions. I can imagine a lot of different ways of potentially doing this, but I don't know how they are actually constructed. Are there any common ways of doing this or does it require engineering? If an engineer gets involved I can imagine that the designs would be highly variable.

[Joe_Carrick]

Doug,

 

Typically if these are Framed Walls, they could be done:

 

1.  with over-sized studs cut to the slope.

  a.  2x8 tapered to 2x4 to get a 4" slope

  b.  2x10 tapered to 2x4 to get a 6" slope

  c.  etc.

2.  with a normal vertical set of studs (2x4, 2x6, etc) and then 2x4's framing the slope.

 

Normally the bottom plate would be the full wall thickness while the top plate(s) would be the top thickness of the wall)

 

Doors & Windows would usually be just framed as if the wall was strictly vertical of the thinner wall dimension and the sloped part of the wall would be held about 2 inches clear for trim, etc.

 

At least that's the way I've always seen it done.  It would be nice if anyone else could chime in to verify or dispute my answers.

[Dan_Park]

Don't forget retaining walls.

[nicknz]

The shape of the wall is the easy part. The questions you ask are the hard questions. I can imagine a lot of different ways of potentially doing this, but I don't know how they are actually constructed. Are there any common ways of doing this or does it require engineering? If an engineer gets involved I can imagine that the designs would be highly variable.

 

Doug,

.............. why don't you share with us how "the shape of the wall is the easy part" and how you "can imagine a lot of different ways of doing this"

 

This would be really helpful to us who don't really know an easy way of achieving these types of walls in a workable manner.

[Joe_Carrick]

Nick,

 

I think Doug is saying that it could be easily done by programming - not necessarily using Chief as it now exists.

[nicknz]

Oh right - thanks Joe. Well lets get it on Doug

[Doug_Park]

The easy part is creating a wall that has the desired shape using the same tools we use to create arbitrary 3D objects. That part of the programming would be straight forward once it is decided what to do.

 

The hard part is figuring out what to do. Joe mentioned a way of doing a battered wall of relatively small angle. A larger angle would require some form of triangular framing. Perhaps using typical studs, perhaps using some other method. I just don't know how it is typically done or if there is typical. Also how is insulation and weather proofing done? As the angle increases there is a greater need for weather proofing such as what is required for a roof. As I said the ways that I could imagine doing this are varied and likely not an intersecting set with the way someone else might do this.

 

While what Joe suggested seems pretty logical, that would only work for a limited set of possible designs.

 

A retaining wall, which is possibly the more typical use of a battered wall is quite different in design that what Joe described. And highly variable.

 

I'm not suggesting that we don't do this because it is hard, only pointing out that what we do here depends a lot on what is needed. It may be that there are so many different ways of doing this that the best thing to do would be to improve the manual tools for creating generic objects.

[VHampton]

Normally the bottom plate would be the full wall thickness while the top plate(s) would be the top thickness of the wall)

 

Doors & Windows would usually be just framed as if the wall was strictly vertical of the thinner wall dimension and the sloped part of the wall would be held about 2 inches clear for trim, etc.

 

At least that's the way I've always seen it done.  It would be nice if anyone else could chime in to verify or dispute my answers.

That's exactly the way they get built in real world.

 

I've been making battered walls for years in Chief by using roof planes in front of regular walls.  The roof needs a hole to allow the walls to show the windows and doors.

 

It would be great if Chief could allow an option to thicken the bottom in an effort to create the slope.

[Dan_Park]

If I'm not mistaken I think some battered wall scenarios involve a single thickness top to bottom but the wall is tilted. (For example a block retaining wall.)

 

While there are tools in Chief that allow you to create a battered wall look it would be great to have more general control of wall thickness and profile.

[Joe_Carrick]

Dan,

 

Technically you may be right - the term "battered" means "inward sloping".  However, in Architecture it generally means the outer surface is "inward sloping" while the inner surface is vertical.  In my OP I stated:

 

Please - don't complicate this by expanding the discussion to walls that are sloped on the inside and outside.  Those are a very different item which would need to be discussed separately.

 

The reason for this request is fairly simple:  It's almost impossible to have a Door in a wall that slopes on both the interior and exterior surfaces - unless the wall is thick enough for the Door to still be vertical.