Copying Full Layout Plans

[CFaasDFCo]

So I recently completed a full plan set for a couple and their friends saw the plans and wanted nearly the identical plan set with removing a room which ultimately will change just enough that new plans will be needed. I’m trying to figure out how to copy the layout and plans together but associate them to the new files of each other as to not have to recreate and relink every page. Is this possible to relink and entire layout to a plan set? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[rgardner]

1.) Copy the folder and rename the folder not the plan and layout inside.

OR

2.) tools>layout>referenced layout files.

[CFaasDFCo]

39 minutes ago, rgardner said:

1.) Copy the folder and rename the folder not the plan and layout inside.

OR

2.) tools>layout>referenced layout files.

1. Oh that’s genius!

[rgardner]

10 hours ago, CFaasDFCo said:

1. Oh that’s genius!

That is a good practice to do on revisions instead of having files such as: "johnson_new_v3.6.plan"

 

Instead you would have a folder such as 20230404_Johson with files: 2023_Johnson_AB.plan, 2023_Johnson_new.plan, & 2023_Johnson.layout.  Changes tomorrow and you duplicate the folder and rename it 20230405_Johnson with the same files inside.

[Alaskan_Son]

On 4/4/2023 at 5:51 AM, rgardner said:

That is a good practice to do on revisions instead of having files such as: "johnson_new_v3.6.plan"

 

Instead you would have a folder such as 20230404_Johson with files: 2023_Johnson_AB.plan, 2023_Johnson_new.plan, & 2023_Johnson.layout.  Changes tomorrow and you duplicate the folder and rename it 20230405_Johnson with the same files inside.

 

Interesting option.  I might have to consider using it myself.  Essentially your folder structure looks like this right?

Smith Project

          |__________Version 1 Folder

                                             |__________Smith Plan

                                             |__________Smith Layout

          |__________Version 2 Folder

                                             |__________Smith Plan

                                             |__________Smith Layout

          |__________Version 3 Folder

                                             |__________Smith Plan

                                             |__________Smith Layout

...my only worries would be that I might have a difficult time searching for files since there would be tons with the same name, and that the identically named files might eventually cause problems with a layout trying to grab the wrong version.  I assume the latter should never happen because I believe Chief will always look in the current folder first, but it feels like a potential problem.  I guess I also don't like the idea of all the redundant files bloating my system.  It does look super easy though so it might be worth it.

 

It should be noted that this approach still requires re-linking for instances like what the OP has presented since the plan and layout files would both be getting new names.  I wonder then if your system wouldn't be better served using this folder structure instead where (hypothetically at least) no relinking would ever be necessary:

Smith Project

          |__________Version 1 Folder

                                             |__________My Plan

                                             |__________My Layout

          |__________Version 2 Folder

                                             |__________My Plan

                                             |__________My Layout

Johnson Project

          |__________Version 1 Folder

                                             |__________My Plan

                                             |__________My Layout

         ....

 

 

The system I currently use works more like this:

Smith Project

          |__________Smith V1 Plan

          |__________Smith V1 Layout

          |__________Smith V2 Plan

          |__________Smith V3 Plan

          |__________Smith V4 Plan

          |__________Smith MAIN Plan

          |__________Smith MAIN Layout

...where the "MAIN" Plan and layout are always the current version.  No need for re-linking for any given Project because I never change the name of the current file.  Whenever I reach a fork in the road where I want a new version, I simply do a Save As, give the old version a Plan VX name and then immediately Save As again back to the Plan MAIN name.  I will only version the layout if its something I know I'll want to return to.  The biggest problem with my system is that simultaneously having access to multiple Layout version requires re-linking.  It's not something I need very often, but your method would make that part incredibly easy.  I could also modify my system to alleviate ever needing to re-linking for new projects by simply removing the unique name from my MAIN versions like this:

Smith Project

          |__________Smith V1 Plan

          |__________Smith V1 Layout

          |__________Smith V2 Plan

          |__________MAIN Plan

          |__________MAIN Layout

Johnson Project

          ....

          |__________MAIN Plan

          |__________MAIN Layout

 

Hmmmm.   I might be rethinking my file system here soon.  I do kinda like that very first version I demonstrated above (the one I think you described in your post). I just have to decide whether the issues I mentioned are really going to be problems or not.

 

 

 

[rgardner]

5 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I wonder then if your system wouldn't be better served using this folder structure instead where (hypothetically at least) no relinking would ever be necessary:

Smith Project

          |__________Version 1 Folder

                                             |__________My Plan

                                             |__________My Layout

          |__________Version 2 Folder

                                             |__________My Plan

                                             |__________My Layout

Johnson Project

          |__________Version 1 Folder

                                             |__________My Plan

                                             |__________My Layout

This is my system (actually @Renerabbittis the one I learned this from.  In this case Version 1 folder would be something like "20230403_Smith", and Version 2 would be "20230405_Smith"  inside I would have 2023_Smith_AB, 2023_Smith_New, and 2023_Smith Layout (assuming a remodel iteration instead of a new construction obviously.)

 

If at some point I have several possible iterations the "my plan" and "my layout" files stay linked.  I may have a "my plan_A" "my plan_b".  Once an alternate has been adopted I will archive all other options in an archive folder inside of that folder and rename the "final" file to "my plan" again so that it stays linked.

 

This works well for me since chief will always pull from the same folder first before looking elsewhere.

[Renerabbitt]

19 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

It should be noted that this approach still requires re-linking for instances like what the OP has presented since the plan and layout files would both be getting new names.

Been using this system for years and it was adopted from an Architecture firm.
Example Project file. Layout and plan names are NEVER renamed. No relinking is ever necessary. When you are searching, you are searching for folder names only. PDF printouts match the folder name, same with renderings. Want a previous version, search that previous versions print name to the folder that contains it. 
yymmdd-design version-iteration-project name-drafter

[SHCanada2]

I think there is a nuance here.

 

I have different versions of plans simply as checkpoints, but then there are different versions of plans because the customer wants a different option.

 

For the checkpoints I just make copies and use the lastmodtime to figure out my last version. This means my current plan/layout is always per the name I selected: i.e. 123 abc street.layout

 

For new customer options on the same house I will:

Prior to opening in CA, I will copy both layout and plan, rename both, and then open the newly named layout and select tools->Layout-Reference Plan files, and change the reference to the new plan file

 

The downside to this is when creating PDFs I have to add a v1 to the end, then v2, etc as I do not synchronize the PDF version to the layout or plan file name

[Alaskan_Son]

13 minutes ago, rgardner said:

inside I would have 2023_Smith_AB, 2023_Smith_New, and 2023_Smith Layout

Yeah, that's different from what I described.  The first version I showed describes a system with an identifying name being assigned to the plan and layout file (this is the one you seem to be using).  The second version I showed (the one you just referenced but seem to contradict with your file naming description ) has no unique identified whatsoever.  Every single plan and layout file across any and all projects would use the same name.   What you just described has both the plan and layout files using a name that ties them to a specific project.  Any unique identifiers in the name of your plan file would necessitate a re-linking at some point. 

[SHCanada2]

5 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

PDF printouts match the folder name

do you create a new folder everytime you save a PDF that is sent to a customer? ...it almost looks like it from your screenshot

 

 

[Renerabbitt]

3 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

do you create a new folder everytime you save a PDF that is sent to a customer?

 

I copy the previous folder, rename it according to my convention, and I do this for any significant changes, including just advancing the draft set.
I archive old folders in a non-sync folder within the project folder and pull off the cloud after 3 years.
So yes...only downside is data storage, and not using the "recent Files" feature in chief..I open direct from the correct folder

[Alaskan_Son]

12 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Example Project file. Layout and plan names are NEVER renamed.

 

Can you show one of those folders expanded?  I think you and Ryan are using 2 different (although similar) systems.  His seems to be more like the first Option I showed above whereas yours seems to be more like the 2nd Option. 

[SHCanada2]

@rene, I'm curious as to how you version PDFs to customers. do they match the folder plus a .x? totally different, manually kept track of?

 

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

1 minute ago, SHCanada2 said:

@rene, I'm curious as to how you version PDFs to customers. do they match the folder plus a .x? totally different, manually kept track of?

 

 

 

 

 I can't speak for Rene, but I personally version PDF's only by date.  Preliminary vs. Construction might get a different title or watermark of some sort, but versions I only reference using the date.

[SHCanada2]

2 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I can't speak for Rene, but I personally version PDF's only by date.

so they look like 20230405 - 84 Howse Heights.pdf? and you manually enter the 20230405?

 

if there are two on the same date, what do you enter?

[Renerabbitt]

8 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Can you show one of those folders expanded?  I think you and Ryan are using 2 different (although similar) systems.  His seems to be more like the first Option I showed above whereas yours seems to be more like the 2nd Option. 

[Renerabbitt]

5 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

so they look like 20230405 - 84 Howse Heights.pdf? and you manually enter the 20230405?

 

if there are two on the same date, what do you enter?

I never manually enter the name of assets after the folder is created, I always copy the folder name by selecting, hitting f2,ctrl+C.
same date doesnt matter with my system as it includes design version and iteration in my naming convention
yymmdd-Design Version-Iteration-Job Name-Drafter name
such that 230405-DRVA-V2-Smith-RG is today's Version A that has a galley kitchen with the dishwasher on the left and was drafted by Ryan Gardner and 230405-DRVB-V1-Smith-RR was drafted by me and is a corner kitchen version of the same job drafted on the same day.
Ryan and I also use this system if we are drafting on the same version at the same time for different scopes of work and then we can combine the two for overnight rush jobs

[rgardner]

22 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

he first version I showed describes a system with an identifying name being assigned to the plan and layout file (this is the one you seem to be using).

No.  I do not change the file names ONLY the containing folder name which has the date on it.  In the rare case where in the same date I have various versions I always maintain a "clean" non adjusted version where It stays linked.  Once I have a new version from the iterations that version gets renamed to the same as the "clean version" and the link stays as it is looking for that name.  For me that is EXTREMELY rare.

[SHCanada2]

8 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

I always copy the folder name by selecting, hitting f2,ctrl+C

always for a new pdf even if it is a minor change? or do you overwrite the PDF in the directory and then send that out? or name it something else

 

I cant copy the folder if the file is open, and I might print 3 pdfs as I am making changes and sending it to the customer, as saving and closing files takes some effort especially if I have two files open and only want to save and close one. i.e if I am working on a plan i dont want to close all the open views in order for CA to close the file, in order for me to copy the file/folder

[rgardner]

19 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Can you show one of those folders expanded?  I think you and Ryan are using 2 different (although similar) systems.  His seems to be more like the first Option I showed above whereas yours seems to be more like the 2nd Option. 

For Clarification:

 

So you can see the old versions in the archive file.  I only put them in the archive (set to not backup) once I am in Construction doc versions and/or I know the old versions are ruled out.

[Renerabbitt]

3 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

always for a new pdf even if it is a minor change? or do you overwrite the PDF in the directory and then send that out? or name it something else

Always!! why not? the only downside to it is data storage. The upside is limiting liability and decreasing the potential for error. Easier to track changes, easier to revert back, easier to communicate.

[Alaskan_Son]

10 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

so they look like 20230405 - 84 Howse Heights.pdf? and you manually enter the 20230405?

 

if there are two on the same date, what do you enter?

 

The actual PDF file name gets a unique identifier like so:

Smith Prelim 1

Smith Prelim 2

Smith Cabinetry 1

Smith Cabinetry 2

Smith Permitting

....

 

On the PDF pages though I just use the date stamp:

 

I guess if multiple versions going out on the same day was a common problem for me, I might consider using an actual time stamp and not just the date. 

 

I used to included a manual version number on my PDF cover page but got tired of manually updating that.  I realized at some point that a time/date stamp serves the same purposes without any of the extra work.

 

[SHCanada2]

2 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Always!! why not?

 

that is discipline. as to why not, for me because you have to save and close views and the file in order to copy the directory

 

[rgardner]

9 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

with my system as it includes design version and iteration in my naming convention
yymmdd-Design Version-Iteration-Job Name-Drafter name
such that 230405-DRVA-V2-Smith-RG is today's Version A that has a galley kitchen with the dishwasher on the left and was drafted by Ryan Gardner and 230405-DRVB-V1-Smith-RR was drafted by me and is a corner kitchen version of the same job drafted on the same day.

This is the only difference between my personal system and Rene's (As I mentioned above mine is a slightly adapted version from Rene's).  For me 90% of my work is for other designers now as I try to be semi-retired (hmmm working 30 hours a week can that actually be semi-retired???, Maybe I need to slow down more???) so I seldomly work with clients direct that are going to have tons of iterations on the same day.

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

16 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

 

4 minutes ago, rgardner said:

For Clarification:

 

So you can see the old versions in the archive file.  I only put them in the archive (set to not backup) once I am in Construction doc versions and/or I know the old versions are ruled out.

 

Okay.  Ya, you guys are both using a variant of the first version I showed.  You plan files are renamed for each new project since something like "Koenig_New.plan" would obviously need to be renamed "Smith_New.plan" when you start drawing for the Smith's.  That in turn means the "Smith.layout" would need to be relinked when you first start the project, or am I missing something?

 

The 2nd version/variant I suggested would alleviate the need for EVER relinking...even when starting a whole new project.  The layout would get renamed but the plan name would always remain the exact same.