Framing - Balloon Through Floor Below

[robdyck]

I use a lot of wood-frame load bearing walls on the foundation level. These are typically constructed with the wall framing sitting on top of a footing which is located directly under the basement slab.

When I check "Balloon Through Floor Below" the bottom plate remains on the basement slab instead of going through it. From reading Help, I gather that this setting really only works when there is another wall directly below, which would mean there'd be no effect when the wall is on the lowest level.

I'm curious about other Chiefer's experiences, has anyone figured out a way to achieve the desired framing automatically? Is it possible?

I know I had one plan where it worked on one or more, but not all of the bearing walls. I could not figure out why or how it happened and changed the rest of them manually.

[parkwest]

I am curious why you don’t pour the slab first and then frame the load bearing walls?

[robdyck]

1 hour ago, parkwest said:

I am curious why you don’t pour the slab first and then frame the load bearing walls?

A couple of reasons:

• kPa of slabs is not as high as that of foundation concrete (building code)
• Project Timing: Cribbers, Framers, Plumbers, Flatwork. This is especially true for the crappy half of the year when it's freezing and it's much easier to provide heat for plumbing ground work and placing slabs after the structure is framed.

[Doug_N]

Quite often the footing will cut through the floor slab with a very short stem wall or curb for the load bearing wall to sit on.  This accomplishes several things.

1) There is a clear limit for where the framed wall above the curb can be placed.

2) It is clear to the inspector that the wall is intended to be load bearing.

3) The bottom plate is kept dry in most conditions.

[SH_Canada]

2 hours ago, parkwest said:

I am curious why you don’t pour the slab first and then frame the load bearing walls?

 

Plumbing ...and the weather. The furnace can be installed before the slab is poured

 

48 minutes ago, Doug_N said:

Quite often the footing will cut through the floor slab with a very short stem wall or curb for the load bearing wall to sit on. 

 

This is what I have seen in all the houses I have grown up in, usually about 3" above the slab

 

[parkwest]

On 1/13/2022 at 11:21 AM, robdyck said:

A couple of reasons:

• kPa of slabs is not as high as that of foundation concrete (building code)
• Project Timing: Cribbers, Framers, Plumbers, Flatwork. This is especially true for the crappy half of the year when it's freezing and it's much easier to provide heat for plumbing ground work and placing slabs after the structure is framed.

 

[ricatic]

Interesting clip above...but as a concrete placer for over 50 years, I would be unhappy about the total waste of money putting the wire mesh down...other than the slab thickenings, none of the wire mesh was on chairs or sitting above the sub-grade...and no one was pulling the wire up by hand...I could just hear my dad yelling "pull the wire up...pull the wire up...it ain't worth nothing sitting on the bottom"...

 

Regards

 

Rick

[parkwest]

3 minutes ago, ricatic said:

Interesting clip above...but as a concrete placer for over 50 years, I would be unhappy about the total waste of money putting the wire mesh down...other than the slab thickenings, none of the wire mesh was on chairs or sitting above the sub-grade...and no one was pulling the wire up by hand...I could just hear my dad yelling "pull the wire up...pull the wire up...it ain't worth nothing sitting on the bottom"...

 

Regards

 

Rick

I believe in this case, since it is a basement slab, they are using the wire mesh solely as an attachment point for the slab heating system to hold the tubing in place during the pour, hence the lack of chairs or any effort to pull the mesh up.

[ricatic]

I guess that is a possibility...Hydronic systems placed around my area would have the tubing held in place by the special clips installed by the special gun shot into the foam board, wire mesh on chairs...etc...but interesting clip...shows how tradesman do things differently across the vast country

 

Regards

 

Rick

 

 

[Ridge_Runner]

2 hours ago, ricatic said:

I would be unhappy about the total waste of money putting the wire mesh down...

Thought the same thing.

[robdyck]

The solution to the original question (prior to the heavy duty off-topic discussion about pouring concrete??) is to check "Foundation Wall" in the 'General' Tab of the Wall Specification dialog. 

In the 'Foundation' Tab, I uncheck 'Footing' and drop in my own footings from my library because Chief doesn't build footings correctly for interior basement load bearing walls (the footing does not project at the ends of the walls).

[Doug_N]

Robert, you make a good point about the interior footing requirements.  Some jurisdictions also require that the footing for interior load-bearing walls require a curb above the level of the basement slab as well.  I have never understood the rationale for this requirement except for the explanation from a senior inspector who told me that this ensures that the basement frame wall will be in the correct location over the footing.  That makes sense.