stevenyhof Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I am creating a test Bi-Level home to learn about what I would draw at least 10% of the time. Plus I draw very complex homes with different height floor levels. I have already drawn single floor and two story test homes, and those are easy because they follow more simple rules. I know I can master these in a short amount of time. However, to draw a Bi-Level home, or Tri-Level (same issue with the garage), I need the foundation plan to show the foundation walls of the garage, and the first floor to show the main floor walls of the garage. The house part was a challenge with the foyer floor and stairs, but it worked as the foundation plan will show the foundation wall AND the exterior walls on the foundation plan. To create the foundation garage, it wanted so badly to sit in the air up with the main floor. And for the life of me, I could not get the footings and walls down where the house foundation show. So I made elevations and dragged them down manually (trying to avoid doing that). I went back into the floor dialog and seen no changes that I could equate to do this from there. I could not get the floor down, so deleted it and made a slab and moved it down into place. So far, I'm ok with how I pulled this off, although I know many of you more skilled will disagree, but I'm just trying to prove it can happen before perfecting a proper method. Chief either can do what I need or it cannot. I'm hoping it can because I really want to make this work. I could always design more complex homes in ADT, but would love to walk away from it at some point. I am happy with the way the plan looks on the foundation, but now I need to add walls on the main floor but when I do it totally messes up my foundation walls. I tried to add Open Below on the first floor garage walls because I do not need a floor on the first level if it shows on the foundation - It can show on the first floor, just not sure how. I am guessing I may need to venture into more advanced tools to pull this off, and I get that I am just starting, but I have been drawing on CAD since about 1992, so am learning Chief by forcing myself to figure this out - and I have a lot. I know it seems I am asking a lot of questions, but not until I have spent many long hours trying and reading and watching anything with related topics, and then trying. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenyhof Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 I'm starting again and including the garage before building the foundation and see how that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenyhof Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, robdyck said: typo Oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, robdyck said: typo Robert, that's too funny that YOU responded to this. I just saw that typo a few minutes before you responded, and immediately thought of you when I did because it seems like just a week ago or so the subject of frieze's was being discusses and apparently you were joking, but it seemed sincere that you said you intentionally spelled it 'freeze' so the framers would pronounce it correctly. I thought it was you who said that anyway... sorry if my brain is mis-firing. I was almost going to respond about the mis-spell too, and then thought of your comment and thought 'Huh... maybe Steve does this too'. Good morning! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 minute ago, DzinEye said: Robert, that's too funny that YOU responded to this. I just saw that typo a few minutes before you responded, and immediately thought of you when I did because it seems like just a week ago or so the subject of frieze's was being discusses and apparently you were joking, but it seemed sincere that you said you intentionally spelled it 'freeze' so the framers would pronounce it correctly. I thought it was you who said that anyway... sorry if my brain is mis-firing. I was almost going to respond about the mis-spell too, and then thought of your comment and thought 'Huh... maybe Steve does this too'. Good morning! wasn't me. I could never intentionally misspell a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, robdyck said: wasn't me. I could never intentionally misspell a word. Hmm... well I guess I should offer my apologies then... now I'm forced to do some searching... dog-gone-it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, robdyck said: wasn't me. I could never intentionally misspell a word. Okay... found it... it was Kyle Marsh who said it.. "I started spelling it Freeze on my drawings because I figured the builders didn't know how to pronounce it (I was right) and so were leaving it off. Since I changed the spelling I haven't had a single one try to skip it. Not that it proves anything and is a tangent, but is worth noting." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 minute ago, DzinEye said: Okay... found it... it was Kyle Marsh who said it.. "I started spelling it Freeze on my drawings because I figured the builders didn't know how to pronounce it (I was right) and so were leaving it off. Since I changed the spelling I haven't had a single one try to skip it. Not that it proves anything and is a tangent, but is worth noting." That's funny...and sad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitchenAbode Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I'm not able to assist specifically but my impression is that your struggles emanate from viewing CA from a more traditional CAD perspective. CA is not really a CAD program, yes you have what appears to be traditional CAD looking views such as plan and elevations but these are really just an alternative way to work and view the 3D model. CA does not function based on individual walls, everything is based upon rooms. In essence rooms are 3D containers that can be individually defined and arranged in an almost limitless number of combinations. Everything is controlled within a rooms DBX, the associated Roof, Floor, Ceiling and Foundation DBX's, and the default Levels and default Room specifications. The information contained within these tells CA how to generate the 3D model. This is why just about all users will advise you not to manually drag down walls, CA does not use the height of an individual wall, it only uses the room and default level information. Yes the wall looks visually lower but as far as CA is concerned the height is still as per the associated rooms height defined within the Rooms DBX. This room concept can take some time to fully understand and appreciate, but once you do then the true power of CA will become evident. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renerabbitt Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said: I'm not able to assist specifically but my impression is that your struggles emanate from viewing CA from a more traditional CAD perspective. CA is not really a CAD program, yes you have what appears to be traditional CAD looking views such as plan and elevations but these are really just an alternative way to work and view the 3D model. CA does not function based on individual walls, everything is based upon rooms. In essence rooms are 3D containers that can be individually defined and arranged in an almost limitless number of combinations. Everything is controlled within a rooms DBX, the associated Roof, Floor, Ceiling and Foundation DBX's, and the default Levels and default Room specifications. The information contained within these tells CA how to generate the 3D model. This is why just about all users will advise you not to manually drag down walls, CA does not use the height of an individual wall, it only uses the room and default level information. Yes the wall looks visually lower but as far as CA is concerned the height is still as per the associated rooms height defined within the Rooms DBX. This room concept can take some time to fully understand and appreciate, but once you do then the true power of CA will become evident. THIS^^ and also, post the .plan!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, stevenyhof said: Chief either can do what I need or it cannot. It can. Either you'll figure it out or you won't. BTW, What's wrong with manually dragging wall heights if it's quicker? I do it all the time. I'm doing it right now, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 minute ago, robdyck said: BTW, What's wrong with manually dragging wall heights if it's quicker? I do it all the time. I'm doing it right now, actually. Be still my beating heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renerabbitt Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, robdyck said: It can. Either you'll figure it out or you won't. BTW, What's wrong with manually dragging wall heights if it's quicker? I do it all the time. I'm doing it right now, actually. ...It's only quicker to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said: ...It's only quicker to you More a case of necessary. Stepped walkout foundations on almost every plan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 minute ago, robdyck said: Stepped walkout foundations on almost every plan... @RenerabbittThat IS the way to do those is it not? I think this is the only thing I've seen Chief show manually adjusting wall heights for though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renerabbitt Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, robdyck said: Stepped walkout foundations on almost every plan... 1 minute ago, DzinEye said: @RenerabbittThat IS the way to do those is it not? I think this is the only thing I've seen Chief show manually adjusting wall heights for though. Post an example .plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Just now, DzinEye said: @RenerabbittThat IS the way to do those is it not? I think this is the only thing I've seen Chief show manually adjusting wall heights for though. There's a few things up north that lead to this: frost coverage, sloping lots, building codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 At times, I even need to manually adjust the footing bottom. When a typical full height foundation wall meets a foundation pony wall at a step down location, for instance. Sorry @stevenyhof, not trying to hijack your topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenyhof Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 12 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said: I'm not able to assist specifically but my impression is that your struggles emanate from viewing CA from a more traditional CAD perspective. I completely understand this and working within this. When I drag the heights I know I am working against the system per say with a more traditional CAD approach. I am not even fighting Chief's design but trying my best to understand and find use and of it's relationships. I am drawing my plan over and over, working through what chief might like me to draw first so that other things fit instead of fight. I currently have a 2-5/8" discrepancy in my garage wall height that I cannot get rid of. This 2-5/8" is often related to the difference between 11-7/8 and 9-1/4" floor joist - defaults I am finding. So deleted everything and starting again by making sure to change my Floor/Ceiling defaults first to 10" floor. Working on the plan again now. I realize that traditional CAD allows me to do as a please, but it does not then have any real relationship to the model like Chief does. I am building a model whereas traditional CAD has you design lines and blocks and objects, etc. in space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, stevenyhof said: So I made elevations and dragged them down manually Don't forget that you can manually drag a room's height in section view. Sometimes that can be much quicker than trying to remember all the different elevations. Click on the wall, then hit tab to get the room. Or click on the baseboard if you have the moldings layer on. You can drag to snap points, like cross section lines from other walls, footing, floors, ceilings, or a cad line or marker placed as a snapping reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenyhof Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, robdyck said: Sorry @stevenyhof, not trying to hijack your topic! Not a problem at all! If anything, I am enjoying and gleaning from the info you guys are sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzinEye Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, stevenyhof said: So far, I'm ok with how I pulled this off, although I know many of you more skilled will disagree, but I'm just trying to prove it can happen before perfecting a proper method I'm only very modestly experienced with bi-level houses in Chief, but from my experience, I've found that you always want to start with the lowest level and work upward. In our minds we usually want to work from what we consider to be the main floor and then up and down from there. You can get away with getting in a floor below but beyond that I found it will screw things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenyhof Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, robdyck said: Don't forget that you can manually drag a room's height in section view. I will look into this - I do have a section open all the time so I can see my results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdyck Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 @stevenyhof You mentioned things Chief can or can't...Here's an example of can't (at least not easily). In the example below, a full height basement foundation wall transitions to a stepped foundation pony wall. Chief will not connect the footings if the footing step is at the same location as the wall type transition. If I manually drag the footing down, Chief creates a 12" vertical footing. There's ways around this but they are relatively time consuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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