NeilofOZ

Linear Lighting

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X10 

 

Been trying to achieve a concealed linear light source inside a display cabinet with no success, similar to using LED strip lighting.

 

The lighting options only allow either a "point" or "spot" light irrespective whether its a downlight or fluro or manipulation of the light source data.  

Only fitting available from the library is "long surface mounted tube light" which again shows a single light source from the centre of the fitting. 

Doesn't appear to be any strip lighting in the Download Libraries. 

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, Neil.

 

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3 hours ago, NeilofOZ said:

X10 

 

Been trying to achieve a concealed linear light source inside a display cabinet with no success, similar to using LED strip lighting.

 

The lighting options only allow either a "point" or "spot" light irrespective whether its a downlight or fluro or manipulation of the light source data.  

Only fitting available from the library is "long surface mounted tube light" which again shows a single light source from the centre of the fitting. 

Doesn't appear to be any strip lighting in the Download Libraries. 

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, Neil.

 

 

Rene made some Strip lights in the Symbols Forum which I adjusted and made a few extra versions you could try playing with....

 

 

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Kbird1,

 

Got the fixtures and look great, just having some problems with positioning and for some reason I can't align the fixtures, ie:-

1. In 3D camera view I have the "light bar" located exactly in position, but in "floor plan" & "elevation" views its in a different location.

2. The "light source" is a different angle to the "light bar", but I guess this can be adjusted in the light source data menu box, once I get the above sorted.

3. It's height reference is to ceilings which I don't have on this project ( being a kiosk ) and in some views I have to click on the "light bars" reference away from the actual bar.

 

I have had similar problems with other imported symbols but through manipulation have resolved these, but not this time can you help, regards Neil. 

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How did you Import them ? it's just a standard CA library , so Library> Import Library ?

 

1. I am not sure without example pics what you mean by this as  don't seem to have that issue ( if I understand correctly )

 

2. they are 45° fittings facing left by default ( light data is 315°) but they are pretty small so it's hard to tell if you for eg set the light Data to 45° or 0°

  however you can also Open the Symbol ( chair and pencil icon) and rotate the symbol 45° in the Z Axis to have them point straight out too or 90° to have the Lightbar face right however you still need to Rotate the light Data as well as Rotate the symbol does not rotate the Light sources.

 

3. The height reference is to center of the Fitting , so I am not sure why you think it is to the Ceiling , unless you have changed the Symbols Options? are they no longer Wall Mounted?

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It's your luck day apparently :)  Mark has just post some other lights you can try too......  Open the plan and save them to your Library

 

 

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Kbird1,

 

Got the new LED strips and thanks, it has sorted some issues out but still have a few queries:-

 

Once I put the lighting fixture into the cabinet, accessing it for modifications can only be done via a "cross section elevation", no amount 

of tab/selecting will work, which seems counter productive as any object in CA can be selected via a number of views. This is where the original

strips you sent, gave me more problems.

 

Have increased the size of the LED strip and want to add more fixtures, which I did via the "light data" menu box, I did a raytrace to see 

if it worked and it appears they haven't been added ( see attached pic ) can you clarify for me please.

 

The LED strip is positioned top only, some illumination left of centre.

 

Regards Neil.


 

Quote

 

 

Java Juice Detail.1.jpg

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The Image is too small to tell anything really , but I didn't make these LEDs and there maybe some quirks with them I am not 100% sure. 

 

Posting the Plan or a sample plan may help , I am not sure if RT still has the 8 lights limit or not in X10, I am not using RT much now as PBR

is faster and easier to adjust lighting in and you can set you own max number of lights eg my default is 100 .

 

it's good to have your Forum Signature filled in, especially with the Software Version,
and of course a real Name is nice too :) ..............see mine below in Blue for how to do that.
If you don't see my Signature then you have them turned off for the Forum so you need to
Toggle it on in UserName>Account >Signatures...... go to the Upper RH Corner of Forum Window.
M.

 

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8 hours ago, NeilofOZ said:

Kbird1,

 

Got the new LED strips and thanks, it has sorted some issues out but still have a few queries:-

 

Once I put the lighting fixture into the cabinet, accessing it for modifications can only be done via a "cross section elevation", no amount 

of tab/selecting will work, which seems counter productive as any object in CA can be selected via a number of views. This is where the original

strips you sent, gave me more problems.

 

Have increased the size of the LED strip and want to add more fixtures, which I did via the "light data" menu box, I did a raytrace to see 

if it worked and it appears they haven't been added ( see attached pic ) can you clarify for me please.

 

The LED strip is positioned top only, some illumination left of centre.

 

Regards Neil.


 

 

Java Juice Detail.1.jpg

 

The lights provided by Mark or myself are designed to be placed under a cabinet approximately 12" from the wall. The lights are angles about 60 degrees to cast light onto the backsplash. There appears to be no wall in your application so you likely need to change the angle to -90 to cast the light downward. You may also need to adjust the intensity and/or the spread angle to suit your use. Another important consideration is that when you resize a light fixture the actual light source positions to not change accordingly, they remain as per their original set position within the fixture. As such you may need to adjust the light source positions after resizing the fixture. If you post the plan I'll take a look to see what is going on.

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I posted this in the thread with the symbols but figured I'd just paste it here.

 

First- the horizontal lights are on layer "Electrical UC lights" Make sure that is on in your view.

The verticals are on the Electric layer (I don't remember why, I'd prefer them on the other layer) Change the layer assignments to suit.

Second- they light levels are purposely very low. They were set to produce a soft light with little edge definition in that cabinet or as undercabinet lights. Naturally you can change any of the light properties, unfortunately you have to change each light (guess how I know). 

Third-Selecting the lights

They can be selected in a backclipped section ONLY if you have not clipped into the middle of the light. That can either be from the side, front or back depending on the situation.

 While they show up in plan (with layer on) BUT IF they are inside another object you can't tab into them.

You CAN select them in plan if you click on the center of the light- not if you click to the side.

  In a 3D perspective or when hidden in elevation  - you can't tab into them. (Ask Chief, I have no idea why.) I used a layerset that hides whatever is in the way, noting the height I wanted them at to begin with.

 

How to select lights.png

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KBird,

 

Slowly getting my finger on the pulse:-

Have sent a floor plan of the cabinet which incorporates the LED illumination, have beefed up the light data substantially, but still no

lighting effect, maybe I have too much brightness in my raytraces, but I need it this way due to it being in a bright area.

The LED light source is on the face which shows the vegetation and mesh feature, set to the underside of the cabinet top. 

 

Having problems with your directions on the Forum Signature, have been through all my settings and nothing comes up as you described in 

your last email, sorry mate can you give me more info as this a new ball game for me, was very good at building with a hammer and saw 

and later on telling people how to do it, but putting things together virtually, is all new, lol.

 

Regards Neil. 

Kiosk Cabinet.plan

JJ 3D Raytrace - 2.jpg

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Is the final result outside? or inside? there is no context in the plan as supplied, I'm guessing this is just paired down?

In any case light is relative no matter what. If this is the complete plan then there is no way to get the lights to show up with the sun on. Think about it- take a flashlight and go outside on a sunny day and shine it on something not in shade-nada.

Here is what your lights look like with the sun toggled off.

BTW-if you want an even light in this situation you will want to add light sources and adjust the light data to get rid of the cones

Sun Off.png

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Hi Neal , I guess you are not aware as Mark pointed out you NEED Walls a Roof and a Floor (Foundation) in a Plan to make CA's Lighting work correctly , The Lighting Engine needs something to "bounce" light off to make the View , this is particularly important in Raytrace

 

Here is your cabinet in PBR with 4 walls ( pic 1) and a roof and foundation built around it , then in Standard View where the lighting is more subdued, but in RT the LEDs don't seem to work??? ..... at 1st I thought it was because the fitting is buried in the cabinet soffits etc but I dragged it out in front and even added 4 extra lights, changed the light colour, type etc, and still nothing in RT except some light Pin Points on the Bar, so Mark or Graham will have to "illuminate" us both more on their LED Light Fitting as the checkbox to use the light is on for both camera and RT views , perhaps I missed something? been a while since I did a RT, maybe just not bright enough for RT?

 

Capture.thumb.PNG.89d6c1f1c2ed850460c370382db518ee.PNGCapture.thumb.PNG.f8fb4e12073152e1406708c35188d390.PNGNeil1.thumb.jpg.f7f3b101f399e7a1ec498043a3b62b4a.jpg

 

Neil2.jpg

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The reason the lights are not showing in the Ray Trace is due to the light source offset from base being 25mm, this positions the light source in side the cabinet material and if shadows are turned on the light is blocked by the cabinet material. Change the light source offset from base to -25mm and all is ok.

 

Ray Trace

5b11aeec82943_KiosLightRayTrace.thumb.jpg.0a1e95beac5c0e2e83e75214c0c024c4.jpg

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1 hour ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

The reason the lights are not showing in the Ray Trace is due to the light source offset from base being 25mm, this positions the light source in side the cabinet material and if shadows are turned on the light is blocked by the cabinet material. Change the light source offset from base to -25mm and all is ok.

 

Ray Trace

5b11aeec82943_KiosLightRayTrace.thumb.jpg.0a1e95beac5c0e2e83e75214c0c024c4.jpg

 

That is really strange cos it was my 1st thought ... ie. lights buried in cabinet material.... so I pulled the fitting out in front of the Cabinet a few feet ( 3rd pic above) and still got nothing , so I am thinking it has more to do with the 25mm vs -25mm Offset than than the Fitting location....?  0 mm seems to work fine too ( below ) .... I was curious why the offset at all actually ...just the thickness of the fitting I assume ?

 

*** Note to Neil ...make sure you turn on the Electrical, UC layer in ALL views eg Sections to see the Fitting.

 

 

Raytrace 8 light LED Strip (see plan)

 

Neil3.thumb.jpg.2948f72344964285dd5ac36d7fd356c9.jpg

 

 

 

 

Kiosk Cabinet_MHD.plan

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23 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

That is really strange cos it was my 1st thought ... ie. lights buried in cabinet material.... so I pulled the fitting out in front of the Cabinet a few feet ( 3rd pic above) and still got nothing , so I am thinking it has more to do with the 25mm vs -25mm Offset than than the Fitting location....?  0 mm seems to work fine too ( below ) .... I was curious why the offset at all actually ...just the thickness of the fitting I assume ?

 

*** Note to Neil ...make sure you turn on the Electrical, UC layer in ALL views eg Sections to see the Fitting.

 

 

Raytrace 8 light LED Strip (see plan)

 

Neil3.thumb.jpg.2948f72344964285dd5ac36d7fd356c9.jpg

 

 

 

 

Kiosk Cabinet_MHD.plan

 

When you pulled the fixture outside of the cabinet and still did not get any light. With the offset at 25mm the light source is just above the fixture and with shadows on the light was being blocked by the fixture. When I look at your third pic you can see tiny dots of light just above the fixture. You would have seen the light if shadows was turned off, then the light ignores any materials and just passes through. Setting the light source offset to -25mm places the light source just below the fixtures, now the fixture does not interfere with the light and all should be good.

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39 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

When you pulled the fixture outside of the cabinet and still did not get any light. With the offset at 25mm the light source is just above the fixture and with shadows on the light was being blocked by the fixture. When I look at your third pic you can see tiny dots of light just above the fixture. You would have seen the light if shadows was turned off, then the light ignores any materials and just passes through. Setting the light source offset to -25mm places the light source just below the fixtures, now the fixture does not interfere with the light and all should be good.

 

Thanks for the Followup , it would not of occurred to me that the Shadows would cause the light to not show..... just the opposite , I see how being above the Fixture would be an issue to some extent but am surprised it blocked all the light.

 

M.

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12 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Thanks for the Followup , it would not of occurred to me that the Shadows would cause the light to not show..... just the opposite , I see how being above the Fixture would be an issue to some extent but am surprised it blocked all the light.

 

M.

I believe it's because at that distance from the light fixture the cone is very small, not wide enough to get around the fixture. If the offset was say 150mm then the cone would be wide enough and then you would likely see the fixtures shadow on the floor.

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Fellas,

 

Yesterday was a holiday in in our home state, but played around with the settings over the weekend and turned off the sunlight

as discussed, but still nothing and all of my settings are the same as yours.

 

From my perspective, I need lots of light to embellish the color and detail of the kiosk, so at this point will go with what I have 

as I believe the kiosk has enough detail to satisfy my client, got to get on with 2D detailing anyway.

 

For me it's a long learning curve, but still very happy that I am able to undertake both 3D & 2D documentation of projects, something

I have been wanting to do for a long time.  

 

Thanks for all your help, without the forum I would be floundering, don't forget to clarify filling the Forum Signature, as I haven't been 

able to find that anywhere in my personal settings.

 

Regards Neil.

  

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22 hours ago, NeilofOZ said:

Fellas,

 

Yesterday was a holiday in in our home state, but played around with the settings over the weekend and turned off the sunlight

as discussed, but still nothing and all of my settings are the same as yours.

 

From my perspective, I need lots of light to embellish the color and detail of the kiosk, so at this point will go with what I have 

as I believe the kiosk has enough detail to satisfy my client, got to get on with 2D detailing anyway.

 

For me it's a long learning curve, but still very happy that I am able to undertake both 3D & 2D documentation of projects, something

I have been wanting to do for a long time.  

 

Thanks for all your help, without the forum I would be floundering, don't forget to clarify filling the Forum Signature, as I haven't been 

able to find that anywhere in my personal settings.

 

Regards Neil.

  

 

 

Did you play around with my Plan above ?    I didn't need to turn off the Sun....  I also adjusted the Fitting to have 8 "lights" the main issue was the source being buried in the Cabinet Top which blocked the light.

 

Also, it's good to have your Forum Signature filled in, especially with the Software Version,
and of course a real Name is nice too :) ..............see mine below in Blue for how to do that.
If you don't see my Signature then you have them turned off for the Forum so you need to
Toggle it on in UserName>Account >Signatures...... go to the Upper RH Corner of Forum Window.

 

I guess I need to re-write the above :)  ,

To fill in your Signature .... go up to the top RH Corner of this window and click on your UserName> Account Settings> Signature....

and make sure to also enable Signature with the checkbox (will Turn Green) then add your Hardware Details and Chief Software Version, as different Versions may require different Answers.

***To add Pics to your Posts please use Windows Snipping Tool , found under Windows Accessories in your Start Menu,

                       Save the Snip to your Desktop and Drag it into the Light Grey Area of the Reply Window.

 


M.

 

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