Evolution

Ceiling Plane tool

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I'm out of practice for sure, not having used CA steady over the last several months. Currently one of our clients wants a metal building design with 14' eave height, but with 10' ceiling height in the finished areas. No ceiling in the warehouse portion. I did the basic building, set the height for 168". Attempting to set the ceiling height to 120" changes everything. so I used the structure tab, and edit ceiling finish, then change the layer to 48" to give me a 120" ceiling height.  This probably isn't the best way to do it, but I can't get the build ceiling plain to work for me. IT keeps wanting to create a plain that follows the slope of the roof. I thought I had it figured out until I pulled a section through one of the spaces, and for some reason, the new ceiling height is still following the roof slope at the eaves.  Some simple tool or setting I'm sure, but I haven't found it yet. 

 

40'X100' PEMB METAL BLDG.plan

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It sounds like you do not have ceiling checked in the structure dbx.  That will still work though.  The roof tools have an icon specifically for placing a ceiling plane manually.

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The Shelf Ceiling setting may do what you want

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1 hour ago, Evolution said:

IT keeps wanting to create a plain that follows the slope of the roof.

 

They default to the roof pitch set in your roof defaults. Open it and set the pitch to 0".

 

And, have you considered the Shelf Ceiling setting?

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Glenn, I was looking into using the ceiling shelf, not familiar with the tool or how it works. While searching the KB, (Since my ceilings in this one are suspended) KB 00291 addresses suspended ceilings, so I was checking into how to do this.  Problem is, the KB speaks to editing the "normal" room definition, however, in X10 my edit tool display doesn't give me that option and with all the searching I've done, I'm still not sure how to accomplish the task outlined in this KB.  https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00291/creating-a-suspended-ceiling.html#ceilingfinish

 

Eric, I'm looking into how to use the Ceiling shelf tool (I saw that yesterday while searching for a way to correct the issue) The drop ceiling exercise I did yesterday worked so far except for the dropped ceiling following the roof slope when it hits the eaves for some unknown reason. I hate to delete what I've managed to accomplished so far to retry the ceiling plain, but if time permits today, I may just make a copy of my plan and try the ceiling plain tool again.  

Edit Room Default 1.pdf

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Bob,

 

If you want to draw manual ceilings you need to be aware that when you first draw one, it will follow the pitch of the current roof default.

So, if you want a flat ceiling plane, the best way is to draw the ceiling plane at the default pitch (the roof default pitch) and then open it's dbx and change the pitch to zero.

You can't make the default roof pitch to anything less than 1.2deg, so you can't set the roof pitch to zero before drawing the ceiling plane.

 

I didn't spend too much time looking over that KB article, but I think it refers to an older version.

Have a look in the help file for Special Ceilings...Lowered ceilings for a good description of how to do them.

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Bob,

 

I see no reason you can't set the ceiling height to 10 ft. in the rooms you choose, make sure there's a ceiling in those rooms' spec, and then make sure there's no ceiling in the warehouse area. Chief should handle that condition easily without having to resort to a custom ceiling plane.

 

Plan attached below. As always there might be something simple I am missing but seemed pretty straight forward.

 

I re-did the video to eliminate looking for that pesky stem wall... Oh yeah I built a mono slab foundation as well. I didn't see one in your original plan.

 

 

 

ceiling plane 2.plan

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Larry, the issue is created when I set the eave height, they want a 14' (168") eave height  (only way I know to do that with CA X10 is to set it in the structure tab). Then when I attempt to set the lowered ceiling height to the 120" (10") that they desire in all the rooms (except the ware house apparatus bays) it either adds a stem wall and raises the floor elevation (and even with mono slab checked, and flat ceiling checked) there is no ceiling. I have attempted doing a ceiling plain as Glenn suggest, and set the pitch to zero, but the only way I can get the ceiling at all, is by editing the ceiling material layer to a depth of 48" which then gives me the lowered ceiling, but at the eaves the ceiling follows the roof pitch (I have no idea why?) which when I do a cross section shows the quirky sloped ceiling at the eaves and no way I want to show this to the client.

Edit Room Default 1.pdf

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Another way of doing what I think you want is using 2 floors. The lower floor is the height of the internal rooms, the 2nd floor is all Open Below, and raises the entire roof to the height in the warehouse.

 

And please -- ceiling plane, not ceiling plain. :)

 

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Thanks for the grammar correction.  Wish the rest of it was that easy.  

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34 minutes ago, Evolution said:

Larry, the issue is created when I set the eave height, they want a 14' (168") eave height  (only way I know to do that with CA X10 is to set it in the structure tab). Then when I attempt to set the lowered ceiling height to the 120" (10") that they desire in all the rooms (except the ware house apparatus bays) it either adds a stem wall and raises the floor elevation (and even with mono slab checked, and flat ceiling checked) there is no ceiling. I have attempted doing a ceiling plain as Glenn suggest, and set the pitch to zero, but the only way I can get the ceiling at all, is by editing the ceiling material layer to a depth of 48" which then gives me the lowered ceiling, but at the eaves the ceiling follows the roof pitch (I have no idea why?) which when I do a cross section shows the quirky sloped ceiling at the eaves and no way I want to show this to the client.

Edit Room Default 1.pdf

 

Did you check the plan I posted? And take all the steps in the video? Those issues were all resolved. Build a mono slab foundation and that should get rid of the stem wall. Then follow the video or use the plan I postsed.

 

A 168" eave height? Just set the eave height on the roof to 168" ?? What am I missing? Are you using eave height to mean something else? Because eave height is set in the roof dbx and can be any height you choose in conjunction with the baseline height. Top of eave? Bottom of eave?

 

Here's the plan again. Just change the roof eave height to 168" and you're done. - again unless I'm missing something.

 

ceiling plane 2.plan.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, solver said:

Another way of doing what I think you want is using 2 floors. The lower floor is the height of the internal rooms, the 2nd floor is all Open Below, and raises the entire roof to the height in the warehouse.

 

And please -- ceiling plane, not ceiling plain. :)

 

Super confused here. Why would you need a second floor to simply set different ceiling heights in different areas of a single floor building?

 

Did you check the plan? Or the video? Really curious and it wouldn't be the first time I got it all wrong but am interested in what I am missing?

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Larry, I took (second) quick look at the video. First I thought you were setting the over all height at 120" making the eave 120".  The height they want for the trucks to clear the over head door height is 14' at the eaves, but they want a finished ceiling height of 120".  

I understand it better (as you would expect) after a second look.   As soon as I can get back to it will actually give it a try. Thanks for the video!

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2 minutes ago, Evolution said:

Larry, I took (second) quick look at the video. First I thought you were setting the over all height at 120" making the eave 120".  The height they want for the trucks to clear the over head door height is 14' at the eaves, but they want a finished ceiling height of 120".  

I understand it better (as you would expect) after a second look.   As soon as I can get back to it will actually give it a try. Thanks for the video!

 

 

...or just open the plan I posted and see if that doesn't do the trick for you.

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Larry, I did. On first look it appears correct.  I just need to get time to go back through the vid, so I can set my eave height correctly at 168" (14'). Yours is approx. 12'-10 1/8". I'm sure I can figure it out from here. I had used some information from a plan several years ago the Glenn Woodward helped me with, and thought I had to set the eave height in the structure tab with the room definition to keep the roof at the same height. Sounds like if I go to the roof tab, and set the eave for 14' that should raise the walls up without affecting the room ceiling height?

 

I'll  update once I've had more time to work on it.  Have to run out and meet with a couple of clients.

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30 minutes ago, Evolution said:

Larry, I did. On first look it appears correct.  I just need to get time to go back through the vid, so I can set my eave height correctly at 168" (14'). Yours is approx. 12'-10 1/8". I'm sure I can figure it out from here. I had used some information from a plan several years ago the Glenn Woodward helped me with, and thought I had to set the eave height in the structure tab with the room definition to keep the roof at the same height. Sounds like if I go to the roof tab, and set the eave for 14' that should raise the walls up without affecting the room ceiling height?

 

I'll  update once I've had more time to work on it.  Have to run out and meet with a couple of clients.

 

I see that. Yes. Open each roof dbx, lock the pitch and set the fascia top (or bottom) to 168" - should work OK.  And yes you can raise the roof without affecting the ceiling heights.

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Larry, that did the trick. Presented to the Client, and he's happy, but; now he's decided he wants to increase the size, but that shouldn't be a problem now. I know I will have to start a new thread though once I've started as the city design board has told him he has to add brick veneer or other decorative finish to the exterior. I think I can figure that one out without a lot of forum help. As always a lot of great help on the forum, but I need to do as much on my own as possible! And remember to spell check :D

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