thedevantiers Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Hi All, We are new to the forum, so hello to everyone. We are trying to find out what the following blueprint symbols (within the red circle) are in the attached file? Can anyone help identify them for us. We are still learning all the symbols, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks. The D's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysEastern Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 F.A.U. - Forced Air Unit The round symbol would be a Hot water heater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevantiers Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 Thanks, Brian. Any chance you know what the symbol with the X in a box and the small box within the larger box is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 That's a forced air unit (Gas Heater and AC) with a duct - the Box with X in it> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedevantiers Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) Thanks, Joseph. Appreciate both comments. One last question, why would these be located within what looks like the walls as opposed to being in the attic? Edited July 15, 2014 by thedevantiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Another Name is Furnace, (which may also have a heat exchanger/airconditioner attached) and it looks like it is in the Mechanical area in the basement.... though I am not sure if it meets code as you need room to service the unit etc. I think in a lot of areas they must now be in "conditioned space" which the attic is not......usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I think the "x" is actually the plenum portion of the FAU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJSpud Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 You are almost always better off putting heating equipment, including water heaters, in the conditions space (envelope) of a home or building. That is likely the reason for the mechanical room shown in your image. There is lots of information on this subject at the Green Building Advisor website and/or on the Building Science website as well. A somewhat new practice is to insulate attic spaces, quite often with spray foam insulation, in which case installing HVAC equipment would be OK. With this practice, the attic literally becomes a part of the conditioned space or building envelope. Who knows where this practice/discussion will be in another 10 years or so. Nevertheless, that is what I have been seeing in print from all the building science experts. Not to say you can't install HVAC equipment in an attic. Just make sure it is done according to acceptable practice (code requirements) for your jurisdiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Here in California we almost now exclusively install the FAU/ in the attic space. For some reason Spray foam insulation is not used at all. I tried a few years ago and the foam company couldn't get state approval here, so we just put in the fiberglass batts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Here in California we almost now exclusively install the FAU/ in the attic space. For some reason Spray foam insulation is not used at all. I tried a few years ago and the foam company couldn't get state approval here, so we just put in the fiberglass batts This is true, but I am not sure it makes a lot of sense. Why are we putting ducts and the fau in an unheated space? Oh I know, we here in California ain't the smartest..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I don't know about Perry and the FAU in the Attic, but that's not my practice at all. Maybe it's because I do some work up in the mountains above 7000 feet elevation. I want my FAU and WH in conditioned spaces so things don't freeze. I've seen too many Water Heaters and Pipes burst causing flooding in attics and basements. In most cases the building department won't even allow plumbing in exterior walls. Water lines are not a good idea in unheated crawl spaces either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Joe, if I did any jobs in freezing climate's, I would also do that, but I don't, and builders around here just don't want to use the space for utilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Joe, if I did any jobs in freezing climate's, I would also do that, but I don't, and builders around here just don't want to use the space for utilities Yep, I take a lot of fau's sour of heated space and put in attic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 1. Homeowner's hate to go up in the attic to change the filters. 2. When the WH fails and the drywall and carpet, etc get soaked they're going to scream bloody murder. Basically, I just think it's good practice to make all systems easily accessible for maintenance and repair. Saving a few square feet of floor area doesn't make sense when you consider how much of a problem it can create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Homeowner's hate to go up in the attic to change the filters. They don't have to, the filters are in the ceiling. for easy changing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 They don't have to, the filters are in the ceiling. for easy changing Ugly and you have to get up on a ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysEastern Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I prefer to put the equipment in a conditioned space as well. Like Perry, We try to locate our return registers with filters in discrete convenient locations when possible. Joe, what is the difference in aesthetics looking at a return register (no filter) and one with a well maintained filter behind the louvers? If anything it may encourage a homeowner to actually do the maintenance. We haven't had any issues using closed and open cell foam in California. We use Icynene. You just need to supply documentation to the inspectors showing the products meet the requirements. The inspectors keep that info as part of their records. If we use open cell foam, a fire retardant needs to be applied to get the fire rating. The biggest drawback is trying to educate the homeowner and justify the cost. I can understand most builders in a competitive bidding situation just want to get the job. If its not design build on our part, the only way I can implement better building systems is for it to already be designed in the plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 FWIW, I like to conceal the return air behind a louvered door or something totally architectural. Millwork detail such as baseboards, wainscot panels, toekick space under cabinets, etc are all great places to conceal the registers. It's not always possible but any way to hide the ugly pieces of sheet metal is what I like to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 No ladder for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 No ladder for me They recently changed the code to a minimum 24x36 access....... they were thinking of my friend P., but P. is a growing boy, I think they are talking about amending the minimum size to 42" square so P. can get up in the attic and change the filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 They recently changed the code to a minimum 24x36 access....... they were thinking of my friend P., but P. is a growing boy, I think they are talking about amending the minimum size to 42" square so P. can get up in the attic and change the filter. Thanks, I didn't know that, wouldn't that be 22", that would really screw with trusses at 24" o.c. I'll never get into any attic, headroom problems and I'm to old to do it. I have my contractors do it and take pic's also. I'd break the client's ladder or chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Yeah, it's probably 22"..... I don't know to be honest...... actually I think it is also 30x30..... so hard to keep up with everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysEastern Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 FWIW, I like to conceal the return air behind a louvered door or something totally architectural. Millwork detail such as baseboards, wainscot panels, toekick space under cabinets, etc are all great places to conceal the registers. It's not always possible but any way to hide the ugly pieces of sheet metal is what I like to do. I agree Joe, but probably not as adorned as the one in the picture. Has anyone ever used http://www.trufig.com/home.php It's a nice look but they are about $400-$600 per fixture to install including labor. I haven't used their HVAC grilles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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