Joe_Carrick

Here is a picture of this scenario that I did totally using Chief's Structure and it framed - including the soffit and the soffit walls. This did not use Scott's method. There are not "Openings to make the soffit walls. In fact there are no interior walls on that floor at all.

I also tend to agree Please go back and read post #1. It really wasn't about how to deal with different ceiling elevations - it was about what changing floor and/or ceiling elevations effects adjacent floors and the rooms on those floors..

So Glenn had the Perfect solution for Perry's conundrum - but really this thread (the original post) was intended to explain how moving floors and/or ceiling heights effect the rooms above and/or below. It's really interesting how a subject can get side tracked so easily. Scott ----- I agree for the GTM on Thursday we need to discuss the issues about the Structure dbx and how we would like it to be modified to work better, but I'm not sure all the ramifications of "dropped ceilings" should be the focus of the meeting. Understanding how the vertical Push/Pull works and how it could be improved is IMO much more important. We could easily get side tracked with "details" which as Glenn pointed out are not that big a deal as long as you understand those settings that he showed us.

Jon, You are only partially correct. Manually Drawn Ceiling Planes can be used for "Dropped Ceilings" and those will use the "Ceiling Structure". This is a good way to avoid having to use the "Ceiling Finish" or "Floor Structure" to define those things where you have a Floor above the Ceiling. Note that otherwise the "Ceiling Structure" is pretty much limited to the Ceilings directly below a Roof. That's because where there's a Floor above, the "Ceiling Finish" is directly applied to the Floor Structure.

Larry and others are having trouble understanding how the Structure dbx works. Here are the rules as I understand them: 1. The Floor Definitions define Ceiling Heights and thereby reserve a minimum vertical space. 2. The Floor Structure Definitions also reserve vertical space (no room can infringe on this) 3. The Ceiling Finish is applied directly to the bottom of the Floor Structure above. 4. As Floors are built/created, they follow the values set in the defaults. 5. Subsequent modifications to the Room Structure dbx have the following ramifications: If the Ceiling Height of a Room is changed it effects the Floor of the Room(s) directly above above by moving the Floor Structure. If the Floor Elevation of a Room is changed it effects the Ceiling Heights of the Room(s) directly below - again by moving the Floor Structure. Note that if there are overlapping room locations more than one room may be effected. When a Foundation or Roof is present and "Rebuild" is OFF those elevations are essentially fixed which can result in some difficulty in adjusting the lowest Floor if "Floor is supplied by Foundation Room Below" and also difficulty in adjusting the ceiling heights directly below the Roof. Note that by modifying the Floor Structure to include an Air Gap and Ceiling Joist Framing you can get a "Lowered Ceiling" for the Room(s) below. The Ceiling Finish will be applied to the bottom of that Structure. The Other option is to modify the "Ceiling Finish to include that Air Gap and Framing.

Just change the Floor Structure Framing Defaults and then Rebuild all the Framing. That will leave the 1st Floor at its current elevation, all ceiling heights will be correct and all floor elevations will be moved up appropriately. You will have to have "Rebuild Foundation" ON so that the Basement will move down. You will also want "Rebuild Roof" ON so the Roof will move up.

Assuming that the Ceiling Heights are to be maintained, you need to change the Floor Structure Definitions only. If you want the Floor Elevations to remain constant then after updating the Floor Structure Definitions - start at the top floor and set the absolute floor elevations for all rooms to the desired values. This will push the floor structure below down and the ceiling height below will be lower. Doing this for each floor except the 1st Floor.

Larry, Do you want the Floor Elevations to remain constant or the Ceiling Heights to remain constant?

Alan, It' not a matter of drawing the 2nd Floor first. However, if you want to adjust floor and/or ceiling heights you need to start doing that process from the top down. I personally prefer to do that without a Roof or a Foundation - but if you do have those you need to have "Auto Rebuild" ON. Also remember that having "Stacked Rooms" will make It a lot easier and that's where you may need "Invisible Walls". In addition, you might need to use separate Ceiling Planes or modify the Floor Structure(s) or the Ceiling Finish. One way to think of this process is that you are moving 3D volumes and moving one volume is going to "bump" another. In addition, you may have a fixed thickness Floor Structure that might also be "bumped".

Glenn, You are absolutely right. If the user understands how Chief works and follows that process it is possible to get the results desired. OTOH, the Structure dbx is not at all intuitive and many users fail to comprehend that: 1. It's best to work from top down without a Roof or Foundation 2. To get different Floor Heights on upper Floors while maintaining a uniform ceiling height below you need to adjust the upper Floor Structure. You may also need judicial placement of invisible walls. 3. If a Foundation or Roof is present - "Auto Rebuild" is a big help. 4. Separate Ceiling Planes are an extra tool that can help.

Glenn, That's not really surprising since the Layout is really just a "Plan" file with the ".layout" extension & "Pages" instead of "Floors". The Line Styles behave the same either way.

Garage areas have never been correctly reported to the exterior wall surface. The Standard area for Garages is only to the Centerline of the Walls. The Closet area and the Living Room Area are properly reported and when added together equal the "Living Area".

I can only surmise that you intended them to be parallel to the Property Lines. If that's the case, use the parallel tool to correct them. Otherwise, like Glenn said..... It's just the way they are.

Curt, I don't have any problems on my office system - upgraded from Windows 7 I do have the problem on my home system - upgraded from Windows 8.1 Why FF doesn't access the forum on my home system but IE does is a mystery.

Dan, I will try that when I get home. I just installed Windows 10 on that system last night. Firefox could access the forum before that. Interestingly I can access the forum on my office system (also on Windows 10) using Firefox. Something strange is going on.

Kirk, I tried clearing the cache. Didn't do any good. I can't find a place to Add the Security Exception.

Secure Connection Failed An error occurred during a connection to forums.chiefarchitect.com. Peer's certificate has an invalid signature. (Error code: sec_error_bad_signature) The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified. Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem. Please update signature so Firefox can access the Forum ​

Stop (Close that Window) and retry. Maybe reboot first. That message should only be there about 10 seconds and then you should be asked to approve the license agreement.

Perry, I have 3 systems - Office, Laptop, Home My wife has 2 systems - Office Laptop and Home Laptop There are several other systems at our office. So far I've upgraded to Windows 10 on my Office System and my wife's Home Laptop. Both Systems gave me some problems. My Office System wouldn't let me install the new NVidea driver until I deleted the Adapter using the Device Manager. Then it was a PITB getting the monitors correctly identified and everything sized to my liking. IOW, non of my prior settings were saved. My wife's Home Laptop was just real slow until I disabled Windows Defender. We use Avast, so Defender is not something I want running anyway.

FWIW, I had to uninstall my NVidea Adapter before I could get the updated driver "10 353.62" to install properly on my office system. It was a PITB but now it's working fine.

I installed on my office system this afternoon. Tried to install the NVidea upgrade so I could access the GPU. It failed so at present all I have is a low res video driver on a small monitor. Not good. My Laptop will have to wait for the rollout schedule to catch up.

Mine is evidently downloading. I have a "Get Windows 10" window on my system that just says "Working on it..." which has been about an hour. I have no idea how long it's going to take. But I'm still able to use the system.

Click on the Windows icon (lower right on the taskbar)

Another little trick: If you want a lowered ceiling without changing anything else..... Use a Ceiling Plane - even though it's in the Build Roof Menu, it can be used on lower floors.

My bet is that whoever started this thread is ROFL.