HumbleChief

At the UGM in Idaho they demonstrated an 'empty' file that was like 80MB in size and therefore recommended that a template be used, but the problem remains with any template in that it may also get huge through using 'Save As'. I know it makes little sense but that was the genesis of the warning to use templates instead of Save as.

I see it the same way Michael and part of the reason for my post. Any changes to any template has to use the 'Save As' method too, as you have stated. The problem with using the SAM is that files can get huge and contain duplicated/useless data. How does saving a template 'as' another template alleviate this problem?

That's EXACTLY what I'm going through now. I want to stop everything ( at least 10 jobs on my desk right now) and create some system but can't seem to stop anything right now long enough to create a system that really works.

There are many ways to skin this cat, among them doing a 'Save As' also known as the 'Save As Method' or SAM (thanks Scott) and the other best known option is using templates for each Layout and Plan file. The SAM method brings forward an older, though recent, plan and then gets 'Saved As" another plan file and work on the new project begins with all of the newest Anno Sets, Layers Sets, and various settings that might have changed to one's liking from the last plan file. The same thing, in essence, happens to the Layout file. It gets 'Saved As' a new file and all current notes and Layout details get saved in this latest version of the Layout. Pretty slick and I use a bit of this and bit of that for my new Layouts and Plans. Another method, and apparently now advised by the folks at Chief, is to use a template for both Layout and Plan files. Both templates, it seems to me, need to be periodically updated to keep any new settings or Layout/Plan notes etc. current and I suppose this is actually done using a very similar 'Save As' whereby you take your existing template, update it and do a 'Save As' as the new template file(s). I'm assuming this Layout template has within it a Plan template as well and for every new project there is no reference to an other, older plan, and that plan template is opened from the Layout, renamed, as well as the Layout file to reflect the new project. I've been using a variation of both methods and it's turned into a real mess. Nothing that can't be handled but too much work as I shift between both methods. The problem is I am constantly making changes in both Layouts and plans. I have been adding note after note after note as each new plan checker at the city decides there's a new note that's required. If I have a Layout Template that template has to remain up to date so I can include all those notes - for each City. I end up opening the last layout file and using that (then Saving As) so I can preserve those changes, but should save as a new template perhaps? I am also constantly adding or modifying Anno and Layer sets to reflect some custom view I've developed or a technique I just learned and feel like I can't let go of that last plan with those changes and use 'Save As' to preserve those changes and sometimes update a template file but not always. It seems like the SAM covers everything but in a way I prefer having templates but they have to be updated or they become more work to update all the changes. Sigh. So what's my question? Not sure but maybe just some insight from other users would be helpful.

Haven't visited this thread for a long time - very nice work everyone and thanks for sharing/inspiring.

Rendering/Raytrace? We use the terms separately here. Rendering is the 3D view - uses the GPU. RayTracing is tracing light rays and uses the CPU.

Nice Alan - haven't used watercolor that much but might start for presentations. Not sure what you mean by the line above? A white filled polyline box shows as transparent somehow?

I rest my case.

If my math is close at all that's about $1000/hour? Good for you Alan.

Funny Rashid. There's a good point that's been made about whether or not the programmers should be allowed in the interface and in this case it's obvious they should not. XOR is probably a pretty common term among the programmers and when they put that term in the interface no one among the programmers bats an eye - but - they forget that users are not programmers, and in the case of Chief it's all too common to see this disconnect. Some of the programmers here on the forum and as users don't see a problem either but to everyday designer/architects there's a huge disconnect. And it's not like it's a problem to say "Show hidden lines" or "Show overlapping lines" or whatever the plain English version might be, the problem is none of the programmers think that way. I have much respect for the programmers and have said this numerous times on the forum - Love them but they should not be let near the user interface IMO. I was at the UGM in Idaho and was discussing the sun angle dbx with a couple of the devs and wondered how any normal user should know how to get the sun directly overhead. I told them of a story where I asked a good friend and computer geek old school electrical engineer and he guessed +90 degrees, then +180, and we both played around until we discovered that getting the sun directly overhead required the arcane and little known but to the programmers, -90 degrees. They nodded their heads and thought that yeah a physics guy or someone used to using X/Y/Z coordinates all day might get that but everyday users? Not a chance. Chief has a huge opportunity to simplify the user interface in upcoming versions and I think it will serve them well to do so. (and don't get started on the structure dbx.)

Nice work you guys and great to have your energy on the forums David. I've learned so, so, much over the years from your very generous web site. Michael, I had no idea there was a build>build image tool. Nice.

No doubt CPU chips can't keep the initial pace of Moore's law forever but I think the performance of Intel's processors isn't slowing down because of an intentional marketing strategy or a shift in focus to mobile devices but more a factor of transistor saturation and the natural, predicted, slowing of Moore's law. Desktop CPU's have of course been in decline for number of years and the mobile market is where the growth is but that's pretty common knowledge isn't it? And even though mobile devices don't need as much processing power the need for powerful desktops still exists and gamers and high end computer users, like ourselves IMO, still need speed in both CPU and GPU. The speed increases will come slower (until some breakthrough technology) from here on out no doubt but I don't think Intel, or AMD, has abandoned that speed quest simply because mobile device are so ubiquitous and require less processor power. I hadn't heard of hybrid photon or quantum architectures. Are those for real or something along the lines of a holo-deck?

Some times Chief insists on using terms that absolutely no one can understand without a deep deep knowledge of computer programming. I mean "Use XOR Drawing" Really? Who could possibly know what XOR Drawing means? I still don't know, I just check and uncheck it and see what the view looks like. Isn't there some plain English that would work better in this, and many, many other places?

Uncheck Use XOR Drawing - then they show.

Valuable theory Graham but I haven't seen any real evidence of Intel producing a new processor generation that doesn't include more speed as well as more efficiency, have you? Also there is no doubt that the current (general) consumer market doesn't need any faster processors, that's been true for many years. What's also been true for many years is that the specialty consumers like gamers and video/graphics editors have driven the speed of CPU's and GPU's to their current levels and will continue to do so IMO. Efficiency yes, but speed too IMO. As 'virtual' reality creeps closer to reality I think the need for more efficient and faster processors will remain a priority. Just sayin' and I also think there will be some break throughs that we haven't heard of quite yet that will turn this whole computing world on its head and I think VR will be one of those.

Interesting point in the video @ 2:50 "..there's zero role whatsoever in gaming or personal computing applications..." at 10 times the cost of the current GPU in the GTX 980 Ti.

Hey Rod, Do you have reference that you might share to that information?

My problems happened with update always - just sayin'.

I've abandoned any live views and am now sending plot lines because I had many problems like you're describing Alan. I sent in a plan and they were able to reproduce the problem with one of the misbehaving views so hopefully it's getting addressed/fixed.

Haven't tried that Perry. Still getting mixed results with this plan.

Thanks for taking the time to make a video Dave. Those are the exact steps I took from post above and got it cleaned up a bit. Still missing a few items but that's not problem for this plan.

I deleted all of the elevation points and then rebooted/restarted. I then added ALL of the data points back in and got a total mess as one might expect. I started to delete the points I knew I didn't want and it started to clean up but there were still some points missing. I ended up with the 3 points that I wanted by leaving all the other points shown, many of those points not showing. Simply don't have any more time right now but am wondering my structure/model is messed up? ...and notice in the selection box to the left in the second picture of the DBX where it says 'TOP OF SUB FLOOR' I reverted that to its original name at least 5 times but it keeps appearing as TOP OF SUB FLOOR.

Thanks Jon, tried that 15 times minimum. Got another idea.

Thank you for taking a look at that plan. I tried your method Glenn and it just didn't work. Still only got the 2 heights but that was after it stopped working completely. I would set Highest Ridge and get no display at all. then grade level and no display. Then after closing and reopening the dbx a few time it began to display again but only the 2 showed up. Also found a bug where after resetting the names and removing them from the list I would open the defaults and the name reverted back to the first change I made. I'll send in the plan.

Thanks Michael