HumbleChief

Got to take advantage of that. Are you still the SAM Scott? Or have you switched because of Chief's warning re:SAM?

My layers etc. have built up over time for special cases and haven't cleaned them up for a while and of course you couldn't make any sense of them nor could I make any sense of yours but I hope that's not the point of this thread. Perry, Can I assume you use a 'Plan' template as well as a 'Layout' template? And I'm guessing they both live inside, and referenced to your Layout file? And every once and a while both are updated to reflect any setting layers etc. you see need changing? Which will use the SAM method but very sparingly.

Another question/observation. Once the Layout template is polished why would one use a template 'plan'? It seems like you could start with a template plan to create all your new plans from but then the best you can do is associate that plan file within the Layout file and I don't think everything, like elevations, will update because the elevations refer to the previous plan file. On the other hand if you take the plan in your Layout Template and do a Save As, then re-associate that file(s) everything updates. Am I missing something there? Can't see a reason to use a template plan and no down side to using the SAM in this case.

Worked perfectly of course. My Layout Template was probably 85% there but these last couple changes have brought it up to date.

Thanks Perry, I'll most likely use something just like that, either move them around or delete them. You also work for different builders correct? And use their logo on their Layout as well? Do you keep a separate Layout for each or turn on/off Layers in a single Layout to show their logo and information. I like that second idea, I'm going to set that up and see if it will work.

Aha...removing the number # symbol from Label Field answers the question but I think moving them to the end of the plan for later use will be more useful as they won't be in the way when moving from page to page within the Layout. Still evolving.

I do mostly remodels and am creating a new Layout template and have a couple of pages that will be used only for plans that require them i.e. second floor existing and second floor proposed pages only for, yes, plans that have a second floor. I am using the auto page numbering symbol # in the Label field of the Layout Page Information dbx and everything auto numbers fine but let's say I have a page 3 titled 'First floor existing' and a page 4 titled 'Second floor existing' but it's only a single story house. I choose to not send the Second floor existing page 4 to the Layout Table because it won't be used on this one story house but now the table jumps numbers from 3 to 5. Logical, because page 4 is not being sent to the Layout. Question. Is there a way to get the pages to stay in sequence even with a page not being sent to the Layout Table? In other words if I choose not to send page 4 I would like page 5 to be renumbered to page 4 since page 4 is not being sent to the Layout table. Is there a way to do this?

There is a difference, in theory, between using a template versus using the latest plan and editing it but those differences fade when the template needs updating. The difference is that a template can be used to create a new plan from over and over again. A template really doesn't need to be changed - ever. It can be used as the starting place for every new plan. It would be silly not to change it/update it occasionally but it doesn't have to change every time a new plan is created. Using the Save As Method the plan is updated/changed with every new plan, every time. I haven't had a template that I can use reliably because I'm constantly changing my Layers etc. and I have quite a few plans that have been in the works for weeks which contain all sorts of outdated Layers etc. I've discovered the biggest error I've been making is that I've been using a version the SAM with my plans independent of the Layout, then referencing that new plan in the Layout. Instead of opening the last Layout (or Layout template) and creating the new plan from a view port there. I think I'll experiment a little this weekend and see if I can discover a system that works better.

Again, nice to have your energy here on the forum David. I learn a little something with each of your videos.

Here's a question I have about new plans/layouts. Is it necessary/wise to begin a new Plan in the Layout so all the associations remain? I ask because I've been using an old plan to begin a new plan and then trying to associate that file within the Layout but the elevations and camera views are all a function of the previous plan so they need to be re-done, kind of defeating the purpose of using an old plan/layout to create a new one. Just drifting a little looking for some clarity.

I've never had a plan or Layout get too big from using 'save as' but the reason stated above, (even 'empty' files can get really large) was the reason given at the UGM. They showed, or told the story of a plan file with no walls, floors, roofs etc. yet was still very large and was giving the user a lot of problems. Therefore they recommended not using that method for new files. Still not getting it as a valid warning from my experience. I think for me personally I'll have to spend some during a weekend and develop a strategy that works for me, and, for now, not pay attention to Chief's warning about the Save As Method simply because I cannot make real sense of it or see any real down side to it..

At the UGM in Idaho they demonstrated an 'empty' file that was like 80MB in size and therefore recommended that a template be used, but the problem remains with any template in that it may also get huge through using 'Save As'. I know it makes little sense but that was the genesis of the warning to use templates instead of Save as.

I see it the same way Michael and part of the reason for my post. Any changes to any template has to use the 'Save As' method too, as you have stated. The problem with using the SAM is that files can get huge and contain duplicated/useless data. How does saving a template 'as' another template alleviate this problem?

That's EXACTLY what I'm going through now. I want to stop everything ( at least 10 jobs on my desk right now) and create some system but can't seem to stop anything right now long enough to create a system that really works.

There are many ways to skin this cat, among them doing a 'Save As' also known as the 'Save As Method' or SAM (thanks Scott) and the other best known option is using templates for each Layout and Plan file. The SAM method brings forward an older, though recent, plan and then gets 'Saved As" another plan file and work on the new project begins with all of the newest Anno Sets, Layers Sets, and various settings that might have changed to one's liking from the last plan file. The same thing, in essence, happens to the Layout file. It gets 'Saved As' a new file and all current notes and Layout details get saved in this latest version of the Layout. Pretty slick and I use a bit of this and bit of that for my new Layouts and Plans. Another method, and apparently now advised by the folks at Chief, is to use a template for both Layout and Plan files. Both templates, it seems to me, need to be periodically updated to keep any new settings or Layout/Plan notes etc. current and I suppose this is actually done using a very similar 'Save As' whereby you take your existing template, update it and do a 'Save As' as the new template file(s). I'm assuming this Layout template has within it a Plan template as well and for every new project there is no reference to an other, older plan, and that plan template is opened from the Layout, renamed, as well as the Layout file to reflect the new project. I've been using a variation of both methods and it's turned into a real mess. Nothing that can't be handled but too much work as I shift between both methods. The problem is I am constantly making changes in both Layouts and plans. I have been adding note after note after note as each new plan checker at the city decides there's a new note that's required. If I have a Layout Template that template has to remain up to date so I can include all those notes - for each City. I end up opening the last layout file and using that (then Saving As) so I can preserve those changes, but should save as a new template perhaps? I am also constantly adding or modifying Anno and Layer sets to reflect some custom view I've developed or a technique I just learned and feel like I can't let go of that last plan with those changes and use 'Save As' to preserve those changes and sometimes update a template file but not always. It seems like the SAM covers everything but in a way I prefer having templates but they have to be updated or they become more work to update all the changes. Sigh. So what's my question? Not sure but maybe just some insight from other users would be helpful.

Haven't visited this thread for a long time - very nice work everyone and thanks for sharing/inspiring.

Rendering/Raytrace? We use the terms separately here. Rendering is the 3D view - uses the GPU. RayTracing is tracing light rays and uses the CPU.

Nice Alan - haven't used watercolor that much but might start for presentations. Not sure what you mean by the line above? A white filled polyline box shows as transparent somehow?

I rest my case.

If my math is close at all that's about $1000/hour? Good for you Alan.

Funny Rashid. There's a good point that's been made about whether or not the programmers should be allowed in the interface and in this case it's obvious they should not. XOR is probably a pretty common term among the programmers and when they put that term in the interface no one among the programmers bats an eye - but - they forget that users are not programmers, and in the case of Chief it's all too common to see this disconnect. Some of the programmers here on the forum and as users don't see a problem either but to everyday designer/architects there's a huge disconnect. And it's not like it's a problem to say "Show hidden lines" or "Show overlapping lines" or whatever the plain English version might be, the problem is none of the programmers think that way. I have much respect for the programmers and have said this numerous times on the forum - Love them but they should not be let near the user interface IMO. I was at the UGM in Idaho and was discussing the sun angle dbx with a couple of the devs and wondered how any normal user should know how to get the sun directly overhead. I told them of a story where I asked a good friend and computer geek old school electrical engineer and he guessed +90 degrees, then +180, and we both played around until we discovered that getting the sun directly overhead required the arcane and little known but to the programmers, -90 degrees. They nodded their heads and thought that yeah a physics guy or someone used to using X/Y/Z coordinates all day might get that but everyday users? Not a chance. Chief has a huge opportunity to simplify the user interface in upcoming versions and I think it will serve them well to do so. (and don't get started on the structure dbx.)

Nice work you guys and great to have your energy on the forums David. I've learned so, so, much over the years from your very generous web site. Michael, I had no idea there was a build>build image tool. Nice.

No doubt CPU chips can't keep the initial pace of Moore's law forever but I think the performance of Intel's processors isn't slowing down because of an intentional marketing strategy or a shift in focus to mobile devices but more a factor of transistor saturation and the natural, predicted, slowing of Moore's law. Desktop CPU's have of course been in decline for number of years and the mobile market is where the growth is but that's pretty common knowledge isn't it? And even though mobile devices don't need as much processing power the need for powerful desktops still exists and gamers and high end computer users, like ourselves IMO, still need speed in both CPU and GPU. The speed increases will come slower (until some breakthrough technology) from here on out no doubt but I don't think Intel, or AMD, has abandoned that speed quest simply because mobile device are so ubiquitous and require less processor power. I hadn't heard of hybrid photon or quantum architectures. Are those for real or something along the lines of a holo-deck?

Some times Chief insists on using terms that absolutely no one can understand without a deep deep knowledge of computer programming. I mean "Use XOR Drawing" Really? Who could possibly know what XOR Drawing means? I still don't know, I just check and uncheck it and see what the view looks like. Isn't there some plain English that would work better in this, and many, many other places?

Uncheck Use XOR Drawing - then they show.