Steve_Nyhof

After having several offline discussions, I remain liking the idea of a backup and/or trigger to auto export the .caproj file. However, there is an issue of how many files would be exported with the file, or if there would be options as to what by default might be part of that export. I do not have answers to how it would all work, but I remain believing that more can be done to automate these files so that how we work with out file systems can continue to be used. There are ways to dig into existing backups and chief software files to gain access to some of these files, and a more advanced tech can if they want work in this way. I am trying to approach this from a common user, but again, there are things that could cause issues, or future issues with the ongoing development of a cloud type system.

Actually, just working each day now in the PM, to do an Export is really no more work than a Save As where I select the folder I want it stored in, and if the file exists, I am asked to overwrite it.. Yes, done. Now I know that this is my latest file, it lives on my hard drive where I want it, and that it will be picked up by my other backup systems and do there thing. Very happy with this. If I do not add an additional comment it may be looked at by Chief as "good enough", so I will end by saying, if there is a way to auto save the Project once saved to disk, then I am down for that. The trigger could be that once all .plan and .layout files are closed, I get a popup listing the Projects that have changed and if I want to overwrite the Projects on disk. If the Project is new and I have not manually Exported it to a place on disk, that in that same exit popup, I am asked where I want to export (save) my Project to on disk.

I will look into this if the next release of X17 does not have something for Projects.

I would be totally down with this if it gave me what I wanted

I have discussed similar things with a Chief friend. Some years ago we talked about the same thing. Dumb CA down for new users, and turn on options in Preferences as you are ready for more. However, we recently talked about how Chief should just come up with a new Version. Keep the current Premier so that there is access for older plans, but using the knowledge of the past and knowing the new technology today, to rethink how things work, like the stairs. I think there are a number of things that are not advancing with Premier because anything new that we want, has to also work with pulling old plans into the new version without breaking them. There is a point where you cut your loses with the old and let is die a peaceful death, and create a new system where those 8,000 requests of ours can be hashed out before the development begins. I wonder what it would be called?

I guess I like the idea of just working with my files like I always have. I don't need to open a file from a zip file and select others when asked, or count on a new method for my files to be backed up. So far I am liking just manually exporting to save the Project to my folder organization on my D: Drive, like I always have with a .plan - which is auto backed up to IDrive and Google Sync, which my other files do and are accessible when I want them, or I can access them on my laptop also. Because I am always Exporting when I am done, I know the latest Project exists in my backup and google sync. Just like my other non CA files. I know where my Projects exist on my hard drive when outside of the PM. If they need to be worked on months later, I go to my folder organization on my D: Drive, like I always have, and double click the Project file to Import it back into the PM. If Chief can automate this through a backup and/or trigger I would love that, and I think others would also. I do share my files with several builders and designers, and it will be easy to right mouse on the Project file in Google drive, because it is automatically there, and share it - again like I would do with any file that is automatically stored and backed up that I can share. To me this is simple, it is how I would describe working with files on a computer if a new user wanted to know how software, folder organization and files work. @Renerabbitt I set up an appointment with you. I will want to dive into this at that time to understand better from your point of view. I may come back here to change my mind.

A bit to unpack here. I think my point was clear above. I was done with the plan. I no longer was working on it, and in my process I do not need it to take up space in the PM. I have plans completed 40 years ago. Why would I want to store that in CA? To answer this question, I love that you as a Architect/Designer find the tools you like that works for your process. 1. Let me know how this goes for you by this time next year. I am currently drawing more than 120 plans a year. Even with using my builder code (like SND) for the Tag to organize my Projects in, it is already growing and just becomes more to look at. The process I am showing in the above post example is very normal to daily working with computer files. I am still using the CA backup system, but just less often as I do not need 14 copies of my Library, etc.. Again, I like this backup for the reason it was designed. 2. This falls under user preference. I do like to put meaningful copied plan files in my Project and do. But I am not making multiple copies for safeguarding my work within the Project, that is what cloud services are for and work very well. I also do not plan to need the CA backup file, and even within a disaster, as I Export my work to disk, all my Projects will be backed up and versioned based on the changes made during that Projects file life. Yes, and the reason I am tooting my horn is because while I am a single user, I am interested in the growth of CA into the support of the team. I know that is CAs goal too, but I am all about making more options available so that every user finds the PM comfortable with the way they like to work with it. I think what I have proposed in a Project Backup and/or Trigger would work amazing for a team and sharing environments. But I know it would also work great for the way I like to operate within the PM as single user.

More good related info here...

Here is a real live process of how I am using the PM...

I wanted to put some legs on my process... This morning I was contacted by a builder who wanted to go over a plan I was working on. The Project was completed a month or so ago so I Exported it to a place organized on my D: drive. Because the file is exported as a .caproj file that Chief recognizes to open on double click, it was quickly imported and ready to be worked on... I made a copy of the working plan and named it Markup so I was not making notes on the original plan. Before I start on the changes, I will save the original .plan and .layout within the Project so they are not modified. This is why I like the idea of some type of automated system of Exporting Projects to disk. The feel of a Project is the same as if it were a standard file being opened by any software. I do not have other DBXs to jump through to add related files. I am not digging into some archive or backup system to locate this Project. It is all self contained, sitting in my file organization and works as expected. When expectations are not met, there will be support calls. The client wants to change a number of major things so this Project will stay in the PM for several weeks while I work on it here and there with my other Projects. When it is approved and construction docs are completed, and new permits are obtained I will Export it once again and overwrite the .caproj file on disk where it will be backed up.

Just for the record... The system auto save is setting the update on the archive, not when we hit Ctrl+S / Cmd+S. Not saying anyone was suggesting against it, just pointing it out. And it is working as we would want, so withing the Auto Save minutes, it is in fact saving to the previous save. Without digging into the help file, I am assuming that this archive is NOT used if the software crashes, we restart and are giving a DBX option to use the more recently saved version. I say this because when we do take the latest saved version at a crash it typically has not lost any work. Where an Achieve set to 2 minutes would lose a lot.

I do not mind making a copy of the .plan within the Project where it makes sense. Meaning, the client is heading in a different direction or wants to see some options. But I am not going to just make a history of .plans in my Project, that is why they invented Cloud backup systems with multiple options. I would like a backup that could backup new and updated Projects of the day. I may work on two Projects, so the backup would backup two Projects. But I would also like something more like a Save for a typical file. A typical file when saved, overwrites the file on disk. It is the current data at that time. When we Save and close we know what is saved on disk. The Project could behave similar where we are asked for the disk location when we first Export the Project (have that now), and then it could auto update/overwrite that Project file on my disk while I work... If Ctrl+S saves the .plan file that is open, something like Ctrl+Shift+S (for example) could Overwrite the Project (.caproj) file on disk with it's current data. The reason I like the backup, is because that is just what it would be, a backup of all new and changed Projects. I am currently manually Exporting my Projects and overwriting the ones saved on disk. Especially when I am done with a Project and before I work on the next, I am Exporting the file to disk. I know my cloud software will pick that up within an hour and make a copy or version of it outside of my Hard drive... Now I am wondering if Exporting can be more automated in some way like I am mentioning above. Ctrl+Shift+S (for example). If the Project does not exist on disk, I would get a popup like I do now asking where I want to save it to. If the Project already exists, it would just overwrite the Project. I do not know the logistics of this based on the Folder Tags, but I think they could play a part in generating sub-folders under a selected /Root folder on disk. Edit: I will add that if I made a new Project and worked on another existing Project, and closed Chief, it would auto update these Projects on disk. Again, when I make a new Project, I can Export that to disk like we can do now, asking me where I want to save it to. Now Chief knows the Project file exists and its location. When the software closes, the software could auto save (export) the worked on Projects, overwriting the Projects on disk. And maybe overwriting is an option.

I like the idea of an Auto Archive for Projects then. Only, when I save my work (Ctrl+S), it is backing up and overwriting the Project/files (.caproj) on disk. And the archive folder can be one we select. Or some form of this process.