I think I messed up a roof template option

[mdcurrier82]

How can I set my default roof height/pitch to be locked to "top of plate" instead of "baseline heigth"? It is messing with my lookout thicknesses and sticking my roof system down into the living space if I go with anything thicker than a 3.5" structure and 5:12 pitch. This is on X15.

[Chopsaw]

More information may be required as it sounds like maybe you just need to reframe after adjusting the structure or pitch.  Just like when you move a door or window in a framed wall..  you need to then reframe the wall.  Post a few screen shots of the trouble spots and we may even need to take a look at the plan file.  Also step by step how it ended up that way.

[mdcurrier82]

No problem - hopefully these images will help. Essentially, X14 will default my roof control to top of wall plate, but X15 seems to be defaulting it to Roof Baseline, and it does not adjust the roof plane height when I change pitch or roof thicknesses like X14 does.

 

X14, section at each pitch showing that it maintains 3.5" lookout when I change pitch, and that Top of Plate is default:

 

 

X15 showing how it does not have a clean 3.5" over the wall, and that the dimension changes when the pitch changes, because it is the Baseline height that is set to default.

 

 

 

[Chopsaw]

Yes things are a little different in X15..   It seems you are building with rafters but you have yet you have trusses set to display in your dialogue box diagrams.  I think you need to go back to your build roof menu and set that up for rafters and the appropriate birds mouth.  Then things will behave for you as expected.

[SNestor]

It appears your roof defaults were set to use "trusses"...not "rafters" 

 

- Open the build roof dialogue and check to use "rafters".

- Then rebuild the roof framing.

 

It should change automatically. Make sure you have "rafters" turned on in your layer set. 

 

[mdcurrier82]

Thank you both, but I think that I may have confused my intentions - I guess what I am trying to accomplish is a standard trussed roof system, where the 2x4 top chord would always be resting on the exterior edge of the top plate, no matter the pitch. Ideally, the same thing would happen with a 2x6 top chord as well. Right now, I can get X14 to do that just fine as the plane defaults to top of plate either way, and it assumes a 3.5" structure (no matter what structure depth I set in the "build roof" dialogue box?). I can adjust the pitch all I want, but the roof system will maintain the 3.5" over the wall, like a regular truss would do. But with my X15, it seems to default to "baseline height" and using the "build roof" tool and either trusses or rafters, it will not do that.

 

I hope that makes sense....

[tundra_dweller]

X15 introduced the heel height value setting for roof trusses, so you have to take that into account when setting up or editing your trussed roofs. Have a look at that section in the help files.

 

The baseline height is your top plate height + the vertical structure depth (plus or minus any additional height needed to reach your heel height setting, if any). The vertical structure depth change depending on the roof pitch, so a 2x4 at 3/12 has a lower value than a 2x4 at 7/12 so you have to take that into account when manually editing different pitched roof planes.

 

So in your first X15 example above, you would want to hit the radio button to lock either the top plate height or the pitch, and then enter the correct value in for the baseline height (109 1/8 + 4 3/8) and this should give you what your looking for.

 

In your second X15 example, you would lock the pitch and then enter in a value of 112 3/4" (top plate height + vertical structure depth) in for the baseline height, and this should give you what you want. 

 

If this doesn't work, then I would guess that your roof baseline polylines are not lined up over the outboard edge of your wall main layer.

 

 

 

 

[GeneDavis]

I just opened a new X15 plan and set roof and framing defaults.  See below.

 

It is in the roof defaults as seen here, where the roof pitch is set, and entering a pitch, Chief shows us the calculated structure depth (heel height), for the rafter size (in the case of trusses, set the rafter size for top chord size, mine is set to 3.5).  I set pitch at 5, Chief calculates and shows the vertical structure depth of 3 13/16, so I set that as the heel height.

 

Drawing a truss gives expected results.  The top chord passes over the plate and intersects it at the out corner.

 

I may be unskilled at Chief in many aspects of roof lore, but I don't believe you can change the roof pitch to 6 or whatever different from 5, and have Chief auto gen the roof to give the same result (top chord intersect).  It is not a one-field entry and go.

 

You gotta go a tiny bit deeper.  Select Build Roof, enter your new desired pitch, hit TAB, and Chief will show you what the vert struct is for your 2x4 rafter (i.e. truss top chord).  Enter that into the heel height field.  Click OK.  Chief gens a new set of roof planes.  Any trusses you placed at the previous pitch can be auto gen'd and you will get your desired config as re the top chord plate intersect.

 

You must build where you don't have to do much ceiling insulation.  

 

Sometimes Chief ain't as automatic as we might like.

 

 

[mdcurrier82]

3 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

It is in the roof defaults as seen here, where the roof pitch is set, and entering a pitch, Chief shows us the calculated structure depth (heel height), for the rafter size (in the case of trusses, set the rafter size for top chord size, mine is set to 3.5).  I set pitch at 5, Chief calculates and shows the vertical structure depth of 3 13/16, so I set that as the heel height.

This is what I was finding out when playing around; the idea that I need to adjust the heel height to match the structure depth is what was tripping me up.

 

3 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

I may be unskilled at Chief in many aspects of roof lore, but I don't believe you can change the roof pitch to 6 or whatever different from 5, and have Chief auto gen the roof to give the same result (top chord intersect).  It is not a one-field entry and go.

Yes, which is what brought me to this question, because in X14, this is exactly how it would operate - I could change the pitch as much as I wanted, and it would automatically adjust the "heel height" to compensate, leaving me with my desired structure depth over the exterior wall. At that point, I could raise the roof plane to my desired height, effectively doing exactly what the heel height adjustment from X15 does, but at the end instead of at the front side. The marjority of homes that I work on do not have any sort of raised heel, so if I cannot get X15 to operate as autonomously as X14 did, then I guess I just need to make sure that I adjust my heel height to match structure depth every time I build a roof plane. It just seems messy that you cannot lock the heel height to the structure depth, because now when changing a manual roof plan from say 6 to 8:12, I have to also make sure to change the heel height to match the new structure depth, creating another potential error point. Furthermore, the structure depth is certainly not precise to 1/16", so it is never going to be perfect.

3 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

You must build where you don't have to do much ceiling insulation.  

I am in the Pacific Northwest, our energy is pretty stringent. This is more about how the program operates and how/why it changed. It makes intuitive sense to me the way that X14 handled it, and it was more exact. If it was a standard truss, it was perfect out the gate. If I needed an energy heel, I locked the pitch and made the baseline whatever my wall height was +12". Easy.

 

3 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

Sometimes Chief ain't as automatic as we might like.

Ain't that the truth, but at least in this situation it seems like it was, and now it is not. Which I find unfortunate. 

 

I super appreciate you all taking time out to hold my hand and walk me through this stuff. What a great community that has helped me on numerous occasions!