Ray Trace Issue - Help Needed Please

[keilrd]

Hi, I hope someone has encountered and solved this issue before. I've had it happen in the past and somehow it either corrected itself, or I accidentally did, but it has reared its ugly head again. When attempting a ray trace from an interior camera view in this particular file, after the first pass or two, maybe three or four at the most, the thing falls apart and renders what's been attached here. I can have another file open though, and it renders just fine.

 

I have tried blanking all (except for the cameras) the plan where the rendering's been working, then importing the problematic plan into it but then the cameras that worked go into the same faulty rendering mode - where it is all pixelated and/or half black. I've attached two photos of the render problems, (as well as the problematic file and the one wherein the cameras work fine at render time). The ones I've been working with are all in the entry hall and have been colored red for the moment.

 

I don't think it's a hardware issue as the cameras in other plans work just fine at render time.

 

I'm using X7 on an ASUS ROG VW75 with NVIDIA GTX 670M.

 

I'm sorry, but the problem file itself is 17 MB, so I'm unable to attach it. I tried to delete things to get it smaller, but apparently, there wouldn't be much left if I deleted enough to get it small enough, so anything anyone can offer without the file in hand is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

Mark

 

 

[ericepv]

Mark:

 

Without inspecting your file, my first thought is that you need more lighting. Why it would render fine with another file open is a mystery to me. Try zipping your file to bring it down to a size that you can post.

 

Eric

 

[DeLayDesign]

10 hours ago, keilrd said:

Hi, I hope someone has encountered and solved this issue before. I've had it happen in the past and somehow it either corrected itself, or I accidentally did, but it has reared its ugly head again. When attempting a ray trace from an interior camera view in this particular file, after the first pass or two, maybe three or four at the most, the thing falls apart and renders what's been attached here. I can have another file open though, and it renders just fine.

 

I have tried blanking all (except for the cameras) the plan where the rendering's been working, then importing the problematic plan into it but then the cameras that worked go into the same faulty rendering mode - where it is all pixelated and/or half black. I've attached two photos of the render problems, (as well as the problematic file and the one wherein the cameras work fine at render time). The ones I've been working with are all in the entry hall and have been colored red for the moment.

 

I don't think it's a hardware issue as the cameras in other plans work just fine at render time.

 

I'm using X7 on an ASUS ROG VW75 with NVIDIA GTX 670M.

 

I'm sorry, but the problem file itself is 17 MB, so I'm unable to attach it. I tried to delete things to get it smaller, but apparently, there wouldn't be much left if I deleted enough to get it small enough, so anything anyone can offer without the file in hand is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

Mark

 

 

Hmmm.  I've run into this before, but not recently.  It could be caused by a few issues.

 

1.  Lighting.  If the lights you are using aren't set up correctly with the correct lighting properties or the materials in the lighting aren't transparent.
   1. Your lighting isn't actually in the room.  It would require you to change the defaults of ceiling mounted lights etc. but if you lighting is inside your ceiling it may be trying to light the space but is passing through the ceiling material.
2. You have an object in your room that Chief doesn't like.  I know it sounds odd, but I built 3D versions of roll trays for my clients so they look authentic.  If I forget to remove them from a corner unit, for example, I get a similar raytrace (in PBR).

I would make sure your graphics card is up to date.  Some of my designers have issues with elevations if their AMD graphics card is out of date.  It really is difficult to know without the file.  Perhaps you could create a google drive link and share it with the group?

 

[JLDrafting]

I encountered this same effect recently and resolved it by turning the sunlight off. May not be applicable to your needs, but I only needed the clarity for  interior visual.

[keilrd]

On 4/13/2023 at 7:42 AM, ericepv said:

Mark:

 

Without inspecting your file, my first thought is that you need more lighting. Why it would render fine with another file open is a mystery to me. Try zipping your file to bring it down to a size that you can post.

 

Eric

 

Thanks for your reply, Eric, especially the part about zipping the file, which I've now done with the faulty file, bringing it to 3 Mb. To be clear, though, none of the cameras in the "Faulty Cameras" file will render at all, regardless of what else is going on. However, all of the cameras in the "Working Cameras" plan render fine, and again, that's regardless of what else is going on. I did get one of the cameras in the faulty file to render at 12 passes, but the second go round, with nothing changed at all, failed at pass 4.

 

Other things I have tried include just copying the most relevant parts to a new plan after having imported the defaults and the layers, and the result was also failure; then I tried multiple different things with the lighting - both sunlight and light sources, including changing the angle of the sun - to zero avail. No cameras inside or out in that plan will render like those in the working plan.

 

I also removed the only semi-custom fixture - indeed, practically the only fixture in the plan, and triedCameras Faulty.zip turning off what I thought might be complicated layers, like Mouldings, Cable rail, again to no effect.

 

I am attaching a zip file with the "Faulty File," and then maybe I can make a second response and attach the file that is working the same way, which when zipped is 11.6 Mb, making the two together just over the limit.

 

Again, thank you.

 

Mark

Cameras Faulty.zip

[keilrd]

On 4/13/2023 at 10:08 AM, DeLayDesign said:

Hmmm.  I've run into this before, but not recently.  It could be caused by a few issues.

 

1.  Lighting.  If the lights you are using aren't set up correctly with the correct lighting properties or the materials in the lighting aren't transparent.
   1. Your lighting isn't actually in the room.  It would require you to change the defaults of ceiling mounted lights etc. but if you lighting is inside your ceiling it may be trying to light the space but is passing through the ceiling material.
2. You have an object in your room that Chief doesn't like.  I know it sounds odd, but I built 3D versions of roll trays for my clients so they look authentic.  If I forget to remove them from a corner unit, for example, I get a similar raytrace (in PBR).

I would make sure your graphics card is up to date.  Some of my designers have issues with elevations if their AMD graphics card is out of date.  It really is difficult to know without the file.  Perhaps you could create a google drive link and share it with the group?

 

Hi, and thanks for the reply. As outlined in an earlier reply, I have tried many things with the lighting, and removed at least from the scene, anything I thought might cause troubles (3d models). I have managed on someone else's advice to zip the file and get it to an uploadable size, which I attached to that earlier reply. I'm positive the issue has nothing at all to do with the machine or hardware, as just this evening, I made a render in another file, and it rendered fine, 25 passes. I've attached a zip file of that other "Working Cameras" file, so now both of them will hopefully be in the thread and maybe someone can crack the mystery.

 

So goofy, because it won't even render outside on the lawn.

 

Thanks again, I appreciate it.

Working Cameras.zip

[keilrd]

On 4/13/2023 at 10:26 AM, JLDrafting said:

I encountered this same effect recently and resolved it by turning the sunlight off. May not be applicable to your needs, but I only needed the clarity for  interior visual.

Gotcha, yes, tried it, lol, among other permutations - I am glad that someone else has at least encountered it, and so maybe that much has to be part of the puzzle. But I tried turning the sunlight off, both from the "Adjust Lights" panel and from the little toggle button, as well as eliminating all lights, just having a few lights, etc., till I gave up. Thanks!

[ericepv]

Mark:

Here's a quick PBR I ran with a new camera (I did not see an interior camera in your plan other than the walk-thru)  on X15  using mostly default settings. I also added a couple more light sources at the base of the stairs and set them for 4K lumens. To check on your end:

• Make sure all your light sources are turned on (be sure to select 'Default light Set' in your camera DBX)
• Increase the lumens and add more light sources
• Make sure your video driver is up to date

Hope this helps - Eric

 

[keilrd]

Hi Eric, I did try this just now - although it looked like 2850 lumens was the top end, but had no effect - I had six lights in the entryway, all maxed out at 2850 lumens.

 

However! I have also just now begun a series of experiments whereby I'm turning off layers - and when I turned off the first twenty or so on the list of those that were visible, I was entirely successful in turning out a good raytrace, albeit with some layers missing. I will keep everyone updated if I manage to refine this to the exact layer or item that is the problem.

[ericepv]

24 minutes ago, keilrd said:

Hi Eric, I did try this just now - although it looked like 2850 lumens was the top end, but had no effect - I had six lights in the entryway, all maxed out at 2850 lumens.

 

However! I have also just now begun a series of experiments whereby I'm turning off layers - and when I turned off the first twenty or so on the list of those that were visible, I was entirely successful in turning out a good raytrace, albeit with some layers missing. I will keep everyone updated if I manage to refine this to the exact layer or item that is the problem.

 

 

Make sure you check 'Default Light Set' in your camera DBX otherwise you'll only see a maximum of 8 lights.

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, ericepv said:

 

 

Make sure you check 'Default Light Set' in your camera DBX otherwise you'll only see a maximum of 8 lights.

 

Looks like he is using X7 Eric , and 8 lights (OPGL not DX12 )  was the default ( and max) back then I believe.....

which will mean turning off all lights except that hallway......

 

* I'd check that head rm on those stairs too , looks low from the pic on the turn?

 

M.

[keilrd]

On 4/17/2023 at 4:27 PM, ericepv said:

 

 

Make sure you check 'Default Light Set' in your camera DBX otherwise you'll only see a maximum of 8 lights.

I always can only see a maximum of 8 lights - a limitation either of my machine or the CA version. I tried to search this phrase in the help file, and couldn't find it either there or on my own.

 

In any event! Finally, as near as I can now tell, the problem (but only in THIS file) came down to some interior doors I was using that I had modeled myself in 3dsMax. For WHATEVER reason, after consistent testing, it definitely came down to these doors. When I went back to 3ds and completely remodeled them from the ground up, there was no change once I imported the 3ds model. But, luckily, as the doors in this plan are all painted white, I exported/imported the model as a DWG model, and finally, with every single layer turned on and the new (DWG) doors in place, it created a good 15-minute render. 

 

(It gets a little thicker, but I can't be bothered, in that while the DWG doors worked fine at the two hinged doors, the only way I could make them work fine with the slider, was to use a doorway and door slabs as millwork - don't ask me, i don't know!)

 

I'm going to upload these door slab models, in 3ds and DWG, if they are of any use to anyone.

 

Thanks for your interest and help.

[keilrd]

On 4/17/2023 at 5:59 PM, Kbird1 said:

* I'd check that head rm on those stairs too , looks low from the pic on the turn?

 

M.

Yes, it is kind of a close call! which I tested to be sure, and (pic attached, Walter the Lab Tech is 6'-8", the concrete slab bottom is the landing lifted 80") to show the owner in the review. As you can see, it is only there at the corner of the floor framing, where it is 78" instead of 80. Were this new construction, they would flag it. Luckily, it is replacement and reconfiguration, and since a slightly worse situation currently exists at that same location, I'm sure they wouldn't, but since we are going to re-frame that floor and the closet wall is new, it can be remedied, which, now that you've mentioned it, may as well be done - move the closet wall out 4" and done - so thanks!

 

As it is, we've improved it so vastly already, going from 14 risers to 15 and from a 9" tread to an 11" tread, (42 degrees down to 34) and widened the clear area from 32" to 36", that we would be remiss not to bring the entire thing into compliance.

 

Again, thanks definitely for your response.

[keilrd]

On 4/13/2023 at 10:08 AM, DeLayDesign said:

1. You have an object in your room that Chief doesn't like.  I know it sounds odd, but I built 3D versions of roll trays for my clients so they look authentic.  If I forget to remove them from a corner unit, for example, I get a similar raytrace (in PBR).

In case you missed it, I wanted to let you know that as near as I can tell, you were correct, as a custom door ended up being the problem! Thanks.

 

 

[Kbird1]

2 hours ago, keilrd said:

I always can only see a maximum of 8 lights - a limitation either of my machine or the CA version.

 

It was a limitation of OpenGL , the 3D Tech used in Chief for most of it life,  but it now uses DirectX12 with unlimited lights, since X12 I think it was?

 

Mick.