Window Dimensions - 'sides?'

[DeLayDesign]

An issue we run into with some of projects is window sizing and how people interrupt it.  Some of my designers will measure frame to frame of a window; and without being able to measure the frame thickness leaves us in a difficult scenario sometimes.

Digging deeper into Chief's measurement systems is appears 'sides' refers to the width of the window including the frame.  So theoretically if the frame is 3/4" a designer who measured frame to frame would need to add that extra 1.5" to the window size?

Has anyone else run into this issue in the past?  How do you get accurate windows dimensions?

[GeneDavis]

You asking about as-built?

 

I locate casings and record their widths, then back my way into window sizes.  By "locate" I mean in plan:  wall face to casing edge, then across window, out to out on casing, and note width.

 

Why would one measure sash width and find it of use?

 

You should set a standard way for measuring as builts.

[DeLayDesign]

@GeneDavis - Yes sir.  as-builts.

I found a thread from 2020 that reference the manual - I looked it up.  Windows width in the window dialog is in fact including the frame.  We are trying to correct our practices and ultimately adjust out methods of measuring.  One issue we run into constantly is 'window sizes'.  Your method is how our Kitchen and Bath designers measure, but some of our 'drafters' come back with frame to frame dimensions and that's what they put in chief as their opening size.

I believe Chief Architects room planner (not the same program) has a way of checking a box that will allow you to input window width frame to frame.

Also - a Window Sash and window frame aren't the same thing.

[GeneDavis]

I do what I do because from inside, the frame is buried.  
 

Unless a remodel is involving window replacement, I don't need exact unit sizes, and if it does, the casings get removed and  the window salesman is responsible for getting sizes.

 

Modern clad windows exhibit their frame edges at the exteriors, but i won't do the outside ladder work to measure.

[Alaskan_Son]

I struggle with this one myself and have often wondered what the best approach is.  We can only assume what the frame size is and further can only assume what the rough opening is so we have to make some assumptions along the way.  A few of my random thoughts for whatever they're worth:

 

• It can help to measure to the center of the windows and then note the width, height, and any desired frame, casing, and/or reveal information.  This way any discrepancies are shared with each side of the window.  Using a single side results in all the errors being on one side which typically causes a lot more issues.
• Remember that we have the ability to dimension to outside of casing in Chief.  With this in mind, you can take note of the casing width and reveal, measure outside of casing to outside of casing while you're onsite, and then while you're drawing in Chief, you can dimension to casing and size the window using the dimension instead of the window dialog.  
• You can also do any math and simply enter outside of casing measurements directly in the dialog followed by + or -  and then an adjustment factor (i.e. 31 1/4" - 7 1/4" followed by the tab key).

 

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, DeLayDesign said:

So theoretically if the frame is 3/4" a designer who measured frame to frame would need to add that extra 1.5" to the window size?

 

This is exactly what I do ..... for windows with wood returns/ext. jambs it is pretty much universal in the Industry, I don't measure casings, I just note the size.

 

On Cheaper builds with drywall returns into the Window Frame I just add 1" for (2) x drywall thicknesses. 

 

New Windows are generally Ordered 3/4"-1" smaller to allow for out of square and new Membrane, insulation, WRB, etc, etc  and any "gaps" are easily covered by new Casings eg typically 1 x 4 vs the old 2 1/4" basic Builder C*** molding.

 

M.