Specifying a new computer for Chief Architect X14 in 2022

[ADallas]

In 2021, I was surprised to find that my Windows PC was so underpowered that I couldn't upgrade to X13. Intel graphics had always sufficed for me--I don't play graphics-intensive games. I did my research and pretty much turned the dials to 10 to avoid premature obsolescence, and I wanted to share what I have learned so far. In my opinion, Chief Architect users need at least a $2,000 setup. I spent a lot more, and Chief takes full advantage of the extra power I bought, but the price/performance curve eventually tapers off.

 

Note: I'm going to quote Chief's system specs, but this article will go out of date. Be sure to check (minimum system requirements) for the latest.

 

Form factor. Many prefer a laptop, but I wanted a desktop. Many prefer Macintosh, but I wanted Windows 11 (a slight improvement over Windows 10). It's frustrating to learn that you can't just buy a computer from Best Buy for $750, but you can't. Chief needs serious graphics, and while Dell sells Workstation units, most of the contenders that are advanced enough to run Chief are considered "gaming computers." In that market, glass-sided cases and multi-colored LEDs abound. It's hard to find a boring box that supports Chief, but flashy computers designed to turn a 13-year-old's head also run Chief--they require the same graphics power.

 

One option is to build the computer yourself. I was tempted; YouTube videos make it seem fairly easy. The problem is troubleshooting any problems that arise; I don't have the equipment or the expertise to track down a cable with an intermittent fault. Many vendors let you specify components and options and they'll build it for you--these are "pre-builts." Amazon sells a line of computers from Computer Upgrade King (CUK) that are the next step toward a Best Buy computer. You can't specify exactly what you want, but they offer a number of options. Adding up the components to build it myself, I came up with about $3,300. Pre-built companies, like CLX and Skytech, wanted more than $4,000 to meet my specs. CUK came in at $3,550 and in addition to a 3-year warranty, they were sold by Amazon, with Amazon's free shipping and liberal return policy. As I said, you don't have to spend as much as I did, but a basic $1,000 box won't cut it, either.

 

High-end GPUs and CPUs generate much more heat than earlier generations. For that reason, I recommend a larger case. My instinct was to go smaller, but I don't want it to overheat. (My GPU hit 77 degrees Celsius generating my first RTRT--real-time ray tracing.) My computer has a half dozen (nearly silent) fans and a self-contained (all-in-one, or AIO) liquid cooling system.

 

Graphics Processing Unit. This is the whole ball game. Chief offers CPU Ray Tracing, but it's slow and approximate (especially on my old i5-4460 CPU with 16GB RAM). What you want is the Physically Based rendering technique. That requires a big, serious GPU card that generates lots of heat. There are only two (like Coke and Pepsi): AMD Radeon RX 6x00 or NVIDIA GeForce RTX 30x0. Multiple vendors, such as Asus or EVGA, make these cards, but they have to meet AMD or NVIDIA specs. You can run X14 with the newer Intel integrated graphics, but you can't do GPU (not CPU) ray tracing.

 

(The attached ray trace example took about 8 minutes to render at 2 samples per second. It would go faster if I wasn't running a number of applications simultaneously.)

 

Chief Architect requires (minimum system requirements) either the AMD or NVIDIA cards just listed. Both vendors have many other kinds, but X14 needs a Radeon RX 6000-series or an RTX 3000-series. I think you want NVIDIA, because gaming computer experts on YouTube say that it outperforms AMD for ray tracing. The NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 comes in 10GB and 12GB versions, as well as the enhanced RTX 3080 Ti. The newest model, the RTX 3090, has 24GB of dedicated RAM on board. The top (at the moment) is the RTX 3090 Ti. Chief recommends a minimum of 8GB on a GeForce RTX 3080. I chose the 3090 for its 24GB RAM.

 

CPU. I was a little surprised to find that the actual computer chip is much less important than the GPU. Notice that Chief doesn't specify a minimum CPU. Happily, both Intel and AMD chips will work with either kind of GPU. I hear good things about the AMD Ryzen 5000-series CPUs (particularly the Ryzen 5800X3D), but the newest entrant is the Intel Alder Lake 12th-generation chip. Intel offers i3, i5, i7, and i9 configurations. I chose the i9 12900KF, but I suspect Chief would be fine with a less-powerful CPU (although Chief recommends the i9). The F at the end, by the way, means that it doesn't have integrated graphics, so you don't have to pay for something you won't use. The 12900KF is supposedly more powerful than the 12900F, but I'm not sure it matters with Chief.

 

Your CPU choice determines your motherboard, so you don't even have to think about it. Both Intel and AMD support PCIe slots, which is where the GPU attaches, so you can mix and match.

 

The latest motherboards support DDR5 type memory and typically support 4 DIMM memory slots. I saved some money and my motherboard is only DDR4. Likewise, I put in 64GB (4 cards at 16GB) but it's relatively slow. You can spend more to get the latest and fastest, but I don't think Chief appreciates memory speed as much as quantity. Chief says 8GB is minimum, 32GB recommended.

 

Storage. When I bought my last computer, everyone was using hard disks. Now, machines come with NVMe M.2 solid-state drives, which load Chief and plan files more quickly. Chief recommends 0.5TB SSD, but 1TB is not much more expensive. Desktop computers at this level often pair SSDs with traditional SATA drives for more permanent storage.

 

My Computer. I've had my new machine for a couple of weeks, and I'm very impressed by its speed and capacity. And I really enjoy Chief's real-time ray tracing. I hope this write up will help some of my fellow Chief Architect users, but I know that many of you are more knowledgeable than I.

 

Sentinel Gamer PC (NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090, Intel 16-Core i9-12900KF Processor (> Ryzen 9 5950X), 64GB RAM, 1TB NVMe + 2TB HDD, AC WiFi, Windows 11) Gaming Tower Desktop Computer : Everything Else (amazon.com). How's this for a boring-looking Chief Architect X14 machine?

 

[Kbird1]

Nice writeup Alan !  this should help others.......

 

Mick.

[AvoyeDesign]

I've built 2 computers so far, my latest is starting to show its age.  Rule of thumb; do your research and then do it again.  Watch videos like Linus Tech Tips to get a comprehensive understanding of all the parts, what works well together, and how to assemble it trouble free.

 

You need to know things like the differences between memory generations:  DDR3, DDR4, and DDR5(not yet out) are NOT compatable with a board that doesn't support that EXACT generation.  PCIe on the other hand is backwards compatable.  The CPU you choose has to be matched with a board that has the correct socket and chipset.

My tips for sourcing the components are to start with the CPU, ALWAYS.  Start with the minimum specs and look for one that has higher core counts and higher clock speeds that is within your budget.  And remember that the motherboard's price could be impacted by a pricier CPU.

 

Motherboard:  Unless you plan to overclock your CPU, don't pay top dollar.  Get a well reviewed board that has the socket/chipset combo for your CPU, and enough memory capacity and PCIe slots for the memory sticks, video cards you need to add.  If you are adding 2 video cards ($$$$) make sure the board has two PCIe x16 slots where the 2nd slot runs in x8 mode minimum.  Also be aware that running two video cards may obstruct one or more PCIe x1 slot for plugging in WIFI cards, USB cards, etc.  Ideally you want a board with as much of that built in as possible, but price point will dictate that.  You should aslo make sure the board has a NVMe M.2 connector for your hard drive, and get a 2tb NVMe drive to run the OS and programs including chief.  This option is all about speed.  I would not buy any SATA SSDs.  For bulk storage that you don't need to access on the fly go with SATA HDD drives.  They are pretty cheap these days.  If you need storage that is quicker than the HDD's but you don't have room on the M.2, go ahead and get a SATA SSD.

 

Video cards; I don't know enough about them to recommend one or the other, but stay away from bleeding edge cards if you don't have the $$$.  A decent floor model 3080 or 3070 should do fine.  

 

Power supply:  Use a power supply calculator to determine your needs.  If you plan to add a 2nd video card or more memory in the future, calculate that now.  And it never hurts to go up one level just to be sure you have the headroom.  If it says you need a 750 watt, get a 900 watt.  Get a modular power supply.  Routing cables is a PITA and if the ones you don't need are not detachable you are going to be frustrated by the 3rd hour of getting everything in order.  Cable management is important as it keeps airflow from being restricted, cuts down on dust and just looks better.

 

Cooling:  Don't use the stock cooler that comes with your CPU.  Invest in a good tower air cooler or a closed system liquid cooling loop, at least for the CPU.  Water cooling a GPU is not for the amateur, and custom water cooling systems are for the extreme enthusiest who wants his PC to be the equivalant of a muscle car.

 

Assembly:

Use a shock grounding collar.  Learn how to install your specific CPU type by watching a youtube video.  Learn about LGA and PGA sockets and CPUs, and how to handle them with care.  Learn how to troubleshoot and about common mistakes.  Be prepared to be at it for most of the day.

[PKBchief]

Based on your research/testing, do you believe that a system with Nvidia RTX 4000 graphics card (dedicated laptop) would cause significant lag issues in CA14?

 

I have a client with those issues and we cannot find a root cause.  Here are full specs as well:

 

i9-10885h

64GB ram

wIN 10 PRO - 64 / vERSION 21h2

os bUILD / 19044.1756

Experience  / Windows Experience Pack 120.2212.4810.0

 

Thinkpad P15

NVidia Quadro RTX 4000 w/Max-Q Design

Windows Driver Version 31.0.15.1625

NVidia Version / 516.25

[Kiwideziner]

 

 

CA seems to be designed to use the gaming cards. Apparently it is different from the major cad packages eg. Solidworks.

[ChiefRichMD]

I am a new user of CA Architectural 2023.  Currently, I still have an AMD RX 590 in a newer PC Ryzen 5600X with 32GB RAM. When looking at recommended GPU specs (RX 30 series) I was comparing benchmarks for those compared to high-end 20 series super cards - 2060 Super and up.  The 2060 super has more RT cores than an 3060 but the 3060 has V2 RT cores - but the benchmarks (for games) look like they are roughly the same and I can get a used 20 series super much cheaper than a new 3060 or better.  Is there any reason to think a 2060 Super wouldn't work similar to a vanilla 3060 - not a TI version, etc.?

[MoeGia]

IMO, 16 GB memory isn't enough to run Chief on a PC.  I would go for 32 GB.  Maybe Apple uses memory better, but I would spend a little more to upgrade from 16 GB.

[Kbird1]

3 hours ago, MoeGia said:

IMO, 16 GB memory isn't enough to run Chief on a PC.  I would go for 32 GB.  Maybe Apple uses memory better, but I would spend a little more to upgrade from 16 GB.

 

The Asus Laptop in my sig. was only available with 16GB when i got it , but I knew I could change it out if really needed myself ( unlike some Macs.) but have not found any real difference in Chief on it compared to my Desktop which has 32GB in the Day to Day work ......I am however , unlike many I work with, one of those that has 20 - 40 or more Chrome Tabs open at once cos they never close anything..... and that will eat Ram like crazy , especially Chrome.....

 

If I remember right  Mark   @MarkMc     did some testing last year on this ....but if budget is no concern go 32GB for sure....

 

Mick.