Consistent Eave Height with stepped slab floor levels

[JNWArchitect]

Hey guys-

I have a 350' long mini storage building where I need to keep the eave height the same but step the slab and foundation about 2.5" per step at 20' intervals.

(i.e.: 1st bay FF=0", Next bay FF=+2.25". Next bay FF=+4.5" etc)

Can't seem to figure it out. Any ideas?

[glennw]

Divide the building into bays (where you want the steps) with Room Divider walls.

Set the floor level of each bay as needed.

Define the Absolute Ceiling Height the same for each bay - I am assuming you want the same height ceiling for the whole building

Auto rebuild roofs.

This will give you a floor that steps at each bay, a level ceiling throughout the whole building and eave and roof heights the same for the whole building. 

 

[JNWArchitect]

Glenn-

Thanks for the response!

I tried that since I actually have interior walls between bays, but when I put the +2.25" step up on the floor level it kicked back to 0". (The wrench in that field has a red checkmark so maybe that is affecting it, so I tried to change the default but that didn't help either.) Still learning this great program after four-five years. It's pretty awesome!

 

[HumbleChief]

14 hours ago, glennw said:

Divide the building into bays (where you want the steps) with Room Divider walls.

Set the floor level of each bay as needed.

Define the Absolute Ceiling Height the same for each bay - I am assuming you want the same height ceiling for the whole building

Auto rebuild roofs.

This will give you a floor that steps at each bay, a level ceiling throughout the whole building and eave and roof heights the same for the whole building. 

 

I find this answer fascinating and Glenn is one the most helpful and knowledgeable posters here on ChiefTalk and to the OP I've been using Chief for over 20 years and have no idea how this is accomplished. "Set the floor level of each bay as needed." I get the same return to '0' when I try and do so from the structure dbx. Have always been flummoxed by Chief's use of 'rooms' in a slab foundation. Any help is very much appreciated.

 

This is as close as I could get and still can't quite figure it out.

 

 

[HumbleChief]

AHA! THANK YOU Eric. I see you changed the floor heights with a wood floor THEN built the mono slab foundation. My templates default to 'auto rebuild' a mono slab. Can the floor heights be changed with the mono slab already built? From the first floor? Or only from the mono slab 'room' below? THANK YOU again.

 

Both the OP and I must have slabs already built as we both saw the floor height return to '0' when trying to change the room height form the first floor.

[HumbleChief]

Thanks again Eric. The video quality was pretty poor but it looks like the floor height is controlled by the stem wall height? And here I thought it would have been controlled by the floor height specification. I guess assuming that the floor height would have been controlled by the floor height specification was a reasonable assumption but NEVER understood that the floor height is controlled by the stem wall height and not the floor height. Of course.

 

Thanks again Eric.

[HumbleChief]

7 minutes ago, solver said:

 

You might have watched before the HD version was ready. I just watched, switched to HD and full screen and it it looks just like it did as I was recording.

 

I have no clue about foundations in Chief, but I've never really tried to learn. Everything seems so unintuitive. Changing Stem Wall in this instance lets you keep auto rebuild foundations on.

 

I watched the Foundations – Crawl, Basement, Slab, Mixed presentation Scott did yesterday hoping to get some insight, but he always shows the easy stuff ...

 

Yeah I figured as much on the video quality and doesn't diminish my appreciation for your video and advice.  I reloaded and the video was excellent.

 

"Everything seems so unintuitive."

 

Intuitive is not an easy thing to define but my intuition would tell me to adjust the floor height one would set the height in the floor height dbx but when trying that it requires the auto build foundation be turned off as you note. But if you change the stem wall height it then changes the floor height and let's you keep auto build foundation on. In my opinion this is the poster child for not only unintuitive but down right incomprehensible. Been raving about such things for 20 years and just have to adjust to the way Chief works and not the way one thinks it should work.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Maybe this will help the OP as well.

[glennw]

Larry,

I can see that you get frustrated with Chief's methodology of rooms and I know that you express that view on a regular basis.

And you probably don't appreciate me telling you that you are overthinking it and making it harder than it really is.

All I can do is explain how I do it and hope that you get it.

I would be happy to do a zoom session if you think it would help.

In the mean time, forget about the level zero and slabs and slab rooms, etc.

You don't need to do anything on level zero - that will all get sorted once you turn on auto mono slabs.

The floor and ceiling heights are set on level 1.

When you enter the Floor height in Absolute Elevations, try changing the Stem Wall Top to the same height as the Floor height and take note of what is set to default to better see what is happening.

The big mistake I saw you make was that you were setting the ceiling height in the Relative Heights section.

If you go back and read my post, you will notice I say to set the Absolute Ceiling Height - not the Relative ceiling height.

From your video: You don't have a "room within a conrete slab" - you have a room with a concrete floor.

You don't even need a foundation to step the floor - you can delete the foundation all together and Chief will build a "virtual" slab so that you have floor to the rooms.

[HumbleChief]

2 hours ago, glennw said:

Larry,

I can see that you get frustrated with Chief's methodology of rooms and I know that you express that view on a regular basis.

And you probably don't appreciate me telling you that you are overthinking it and making it harder than it really is.

All I can do is explain how I do it and hope that you get it.

I would be happy to do a zoom session if you think it would help.

In the mean time, forget about the level zero and slabs and slab rooms, etc.

You don't need to do anything on level zero - that will all get sorted once you turn on auto mono slabs.

The floor and ceiling heights are set on level 1.

When you enter the Floor height in Absolute Elevations, try changing the Stem Wall Top to the same height as the Floor height and take note of what is set to default to better see what is happening.

The big mistake I saw you make was that you were setting the ceiling height in the Relative Heights section.

If you go back and read my post, you will notice I say to set the Absolute Ceiling Height - not the Relative ceiling height.

From your video: You don't have a "room within a conrete slab" - you have a room with a concrete floor.

You don't even need a foundation to step the floor - you can delete the foundation all together and Chief will build a "virtual" slab so that you have floor to the rooms.

Thanks Glenn and yes I'm a bit of a block head as my mind wants to work in singular, incorrect fashion, and definitely not the way Chief actually works. I saw through Eric's video how easy it is to set the floor height on a mono slab. Not by setting the actual floor height which will turn off auto foundation (this is so lame I can barely deal with it, sorry, and I will never stop banging the drum of this unintuitive, borderline stupid GUI 'feature', sorry again) but by setting the height of the stem wall instead? I simply never tried that, not thinking for a minute that the floor height would be set by anything other than the floor height. Probably simple and straight forward to most and my embarrassment at not understanding this is difficult to bare because it literally took me 20 years to understand this methodology. That's one down and a few more to go.

 

As always I appreciate your offer of help and your help in general but I will take this new found knowledge on and take on new and exciting mono slab adventures. 

[HumbleChief]

...and sincere apologies to the OP. I hope this discussion helped in your quest as well.

[DRAWZILLA]

Also, if the stem wall height is different than the slab height, then you create a curb, like in a garage. For all the changes to work auto rebuild slab (virtual-not real) must be on until you are ready to build the real slab. Also check room defaults because with lots of different levels, rooms will build at the default level on rebuild. with your situation you will not want defaults checkbox checked because the rooms all have a different level.

[HumbleChief]

3 hours ago, DRAWZILLA said:

Also, if the stem wall height is different than the slab height, then you create a curb, like in a garage. For all the changes to work auto rebuild slab (virtual-not real) must be on until you are ready to build the real slab. Also check room defaults because with lots of different levels, rooms will build at the default level on rebuild. with your situation you will not want defaults checkbox checked because the rooms all have a different level.

What's virtual versus real auto rebuild slab? Thanks.

[DRAWZILLA]

Larry, virtual is before you actually create the slab using the add foundation tool. When using mono-slabs Chief will give you a fake slab in render views as long as this room has a floor is checked

[glennw]

Larry,

A "real" mono slab is what it says - a proper mono slab built on the foundation floor and usually supplying the floor for the floor above:

 

A "virtual" mono slab is one automatically supplied by Chief when there is no foundation floor level to supply the floor for the floor above.

All I did was delete the level 0 (Foundation floor level) and Chief auto builds these slabs.

These are "virtual" mono slabs:

 

[glennw]

 

Perhaps "virtual" is the wrong word to use, but that is what we called them way back when....

This behaviour doesn't only apply to mono slabs:

[HumbleChief]

I THINK I understand and hopefully the OP has a better understanding as well.

 

It seems that the first floor can have a "Monolithic Slab Foundation" floor checked in the structure tab without needing an actual 'foundation' level. Chief will build this 'virtual' foundation without, again, having an actual foundation level which I suppose once "Build Foundation/Mono Slab" is selected Chief then creates a foundation which I guess we can then call the 'real' foundation?

 

Right or wrong this approach creates a LOT more flexibility when creating mono slabs and the actual foundation level need not be created until later in the build process. I've changed my template to include this condition - mono slab floors and no initial foundation level - which is a change from my previous template with Auto Build Mono Slab Foundation turned on.

 

Can't express my gratitude enough for the clarification and again hope the OP gains a better understanding as well to help with his initial question.

[glennw]

Larry,

I am not sure I follow your logic.

And at the risk of confusing us all, why wouldn't you include a level 0 with a mono slab in your default template?

That is how I have mine set up.

It's free, so why not let Chief supply the mono slab foundation?

[HumbleChief]

On 3/12/2022 at 2:48 PM, glennw said:

A "virtual" mono slab is one automatically supplied by Chief when there is no foundation floor level to supply the floor for the floor above.

All I did was delete the level 0 (Foundation floor level) and Chief auto builds these slabs.

These are "virtual" mono slabs:

 

I thought I was following the logic you presented above trying to understand 'virtual' mono slabs that can be created "when there is no foundation floor level to supply the floor for the floor above?" 

 

2 hours ago, glennw said:

And at the risk of confusing us all, why wouldn't you include a level 0 with a mono slab in your default template?

It works either way, with one in the template or without one and foundation built later. The important part is I now have a better understanding of how the dbx's work for mono slabs, both with and without a floor 0.

 

Thank you again.

[JNWArchitect]

As the OP of the question, I appreciate all the input.

Workload has kept me from getting back to this issue and I see I have some reading to do! :-)

Love the Chief program AND the great support on this forum!

Thanks guys!